[1eyedjack]

Definition of opener's rebid in a natural system, uncontested auction:
1♦1♥
2♠

It is really a BIL question but I wanted to limit the poll responses to those who speak with authority.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I think that people from europe will
answer forcing (for one round) but not
game forcing, and peoplw from North
America will answer game forcing or at
least promising a rebid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

Huh? I'm a European an I've never heard someone advocating that this is not GF.

[1eyedjack]

helene_t, on Dec 20 2006, 01:41 PM, said:

Huh? I'm a European an I've never heard someone advocating that this is not GF.

Also European. I have played it variously as both GF and F1. I really do not know which is standard. I tend to play 2N rebid after a 2 level reverse as Lebensohl, regardless. Perhaps more necessary in the F1 scenario, but still having some benefits to split ranges for slam investigation in the GF scenario. But that is a separate question perhaps more relevant to poll 2, where the question of 4th suit rebid by responder is considered.

[P_Marlowe]

helene_t, on Dec 20 2006, 07:41 AM, said:

Huh? I'm a European an I've never heard someone advocating that this is not GF.

ok, I learned to play Bridge in Ireland,
and at least stone age Acol plays a reverse
just as a 1 round force,
i.e. a reverse does not even promise a rebid,
reverses promising a rebid is yet another style.

My impression was, that Acol style is fairly common
through europe, most bids are a tad lighter than
similar bids in North America.
But maybe the impression was wrong.

The mayor question is, how ligh can a reverse be.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

Very few play a reverse as GF. But this situation is different. Opener could show his shape with a 1♠ rebid if he had less than GF values.

[paulg]

A jump rebid in a third suit is forcing to game - Precision Bidding in Acol, Eric Crowhurst

I must admit that I was surprised when I looked this up, but standards have dropped in all aspects of the game since Eric wrote the book. Many of us respond and jump rebid with less and play Lebensohl-style gadgets to stay out of game.

p

[Trinidad]

There is a difference between a reverse and a jump shift.

Reverses are showing extra's but are only forcing for one round. In this case opener has to show his second suit in a non economical way. If he wants to show his second suit he can't do anything else but raise the level of the auction.

Jump shifts are GF. Opener can show his second suit economically but chooses voluntarily to raise the level of the bidding. He must have a reason, other than just some extra's. Therefore, jump shifts are GF.

This is even stronger for the given auction (1♦-1♥; 2♠) since the non jump shift auction (1♦-1♥; 1♠) will rarely be passed. Contrast this with e.g. 1♥-1♠; 3♣ where some people (not me) would make a case that it is not GF because 1♥-1♠; 2♣ will be passed quite often.

Rik

[SoTired]

1D 1H 2S, right? This is not a reverse, this is a jump-shift. Opener's jump-shift have always been game-force.

[hatchett]

GF natural is standard

[jillybean]

Absolutely GF - it is a jump shift not a reverse

(see my many other questions on this

[pclayton]

Jlall, on Dec 20 2006, 08:54 AM, said:

jump shift, GFing.

Er, but you'd sometimes pass right, since 1♥ can be: xxx, Qxxxx, x, xxxx?

GFing for me, and I never pass a JS.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

sry, I overlooked the fact that it was
a jump shift, a jump shift is game forcing,
5-4.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[inquiry]

Standard for 2♠ is GF if you are playing 2/1 GF, or SAYC. Playing precsion or similar systems where the 1♦ bidder is limited is open for discussion on rather or not 2♠ is even FORCING, much less game forcing.

I prefer to use a lot of gadget that both limit the stregnth of my 1♦ opening bid and the legnth of my 2♠ jump (I can't have five spades for instance due to an unusual treatment I play). So I prefer to play 2♠ as just FORCING (not game forcing). Responder can bid 2NT with terrible hands, and I will use paradox responses, bidding 3♣ only if I am willing to hear partner pass 3♣, bidding 3♦ only if I am willing to pass out 3♦ but not 3♣, etc. BTW, my 2♠ will NEVER include four card support for partners heart suit.

[neilkaz]

I play normal 2/1 or SAYC if PD doesn't play 2/1. Opener's jump shifts are 100% GF which is just the way I like it.

[SoTired]

pclayton, on Dec 20 2006, 01:02 PM, said:

Er, but you'd sometimes pass right, since 1♥ can be: xxx, Qxxxx, x, xxxx?

Which brings up another question. As responder, I pass with the above because I know Murphy.

Do any experts playing SA or 2/1 respond with that hand?

[dake50]

In all auctions, F1 or GF, there must be 'I want out' responses that intend to remove GF, any other accepts GF. So even F1 is GF except after a few(one) rebid.