[whereagles]

cherdano, on Dec 8 2006, 05:41 PM, said:

whereagles, on Dec 8 2006, 06:46 PM, said:

I'm a masterminder as well, mostly because of the dog that didn't bark in the night (e.g. LHO didn't dbl 2NT for blood)..

4♠ it is. If pard has that 2-1 majors he'll know to pull this out into his 6-card minor (or 4NT with 55 minor).

Why does partner know to pull? If I sat down with a random (have to say random because none of my semi-regular partners would ever bid this sequence) partner who bid 2N then 4S, I would start to wonder which of his two bids was the mastermind. Maybe he has ♠AKQ-7th and ♥KQx?

Are you serious? 2NT + 4♠ cannot be anything but an offensive hand 15-18 with 5332 or thereabouts. Pard will take 4♠ out if he has inadequate support.

[cherdano]

whereagles, on Dec 9 2006, 12:20 AM, said:

cherdano, on Dec 8 2006, 05:41 PM, said:

whereagles, on Dec 8 2006, 06:46 PM, said:

I'm a masterminder as well, mostly because of the dog that didn't bark in the night (e.g. LHO didn't dbl 2NT for blood)..

4♠ it is. If pard has that 2-1 majors he'll know to pull this out into his 6-card minor (or 4NT with 55 minor).

Why does partner know to pull? If I sat down with a random (have to say random because none of my semi-regular partners would ever bid this sequence) partner who bid 2N then 4S, I would start to wonder which of his two bids was the mastermind. Maybe he has ♠AKQ-7th and ♥KQx?

Are you serious? 2NT + 4♠ cannot be anything but an offensive hand 15-18 with 5332 or thereabouts. Pard will take 4♠ out if he has inadequate support.

I am seriously suggesting that 2N+4♠ does not exist, and that I would seriously not know whether partner has an "offensive" 5332 (which will never bid 2N, sorry, AND won't usually bid 4S) or some masterminding 2N, where he "wanted to avoid the heart ruff in 3N instead 4S".

[Winstonm]

It is certainly a weird auction and being suspect is surely right - but I have found that long term it is better to trust partner than the opponents, even if occassionally he is wrong.

I pass, which is what I would do if I had 1 club more and 1 spade less.

[keylime]

I am not passing here. Granted I probably bid 2♠ and then double for t/o over 4♥, but pass isn't coming. I've made my bed but I'm not going to lie in it.

[HeartA]

Walddk, on Dec 8 2006, 11:12 AM, said:

After you chose 2NT (I know you don't care, but I think it's plain wrong), you are out of it once partner doesn't co-operate.

Completely agree.

[the hog]

Pass. Easy decision.

[temp3600]

I think there is an ambiguity about the question asked. Is it "What should a player who had chosen 2NT now bid?" or "What would you bid if you had to replace someone who had chosen 2NT as his first bid?"

It seems to me the people who pass somewhat automatically ("I have bid 2NT, now I must pass") are answering the first question, while those who consider another call are weighing the risks of correcting the first bid, and so answering the second problem.

I think 4♠ is too risky, I would pass.

As an aside, I would bid 2♠ with this hand and then pass if it went - (4♥) - p - (p).

[Free]

Partner is short in ♥ and didn't double. What else can I do besides pass?

[whereagles]

cherdano, on Dec 8 2006, 10:32 PM, said:

I am seriously suggesting that 2N+4♠ does not exist, and that I would seriously not know whether partner has an "offensive" 5332 (which will never bid 2N, sorry, AND won't usually bid 4S) or some masterminding 2N, where he "wanted to avoid the heart ruff in 3N instead 4S".

Well, anyone is entitled to his own view, but, if you allow me one final comment, I don't think yours very is constructive..

[Winstonm]

Once again the Lorelai lure of masterminding shows why it is so powerful - because it sometimes works; however, I would prefer to take the occassional poor result than to partner someone who ignores my pass and takes singlehanded charge of our results.

[whereagles]

Masterminding is technically correct in certain situations. But, to understand that, one has first to do away with the prejudice of partnership discipline.

[cherdano]

whereagles, on Dec 9 2006, 03:11 PM, said:

cherdano, on Dec 8 2006, 10:32 PM, said:

I am seriously suggesting that 2N+4♠ does not exist, and that I would seriously not know whether partner has an "offensive" 5332 (which will never bid 2N, sorry, AND won't usually bid 4S) or some masterminding 2N, where he "wanted to avoid the heart ruff in 3N instead 4S".

Well, anyone is entitled to his own view, but, if you allow me one final comment, I don't think yours very is constructive..

Let me try to phrase it more constructively: If I take a very unusual masterminding action, then I won't expect partner to work out what I have and apply perfect judgement.

It's similar to psyching: When I psych and partner "should" (from my perspective) work out what I did but he doesn't, it is still my fault.

[cherdano]

Winstonm, on Dec 9 2006, 05:30 PM, said:

Once again the Lorelai lure of masterminding shows why it is so powerful - because it sometimes works; however, I would prefer to take the occassional poor result than to partner someone who ignores my pass and takes singlehanded charge of our results.

How did masterminding work on this hand? If you bid 2S and double 4H, you will get to a much better contract than 4S.

[Winstonm]

cherdano, on Dec 9 2006, 03:53 PM, said:

Winstonm, on Dec 9 2006, 05:30 PM, said:

Once again the Lorelai lure of masterminding shows why it is so powerful - because it sometimes works; however, I would prefer to take the occassional poor result than to partner someone who ignores my pass and takes singlehanded charge of our results.

How did masterminding work on this hand? If you bid 2S and double 4H, you will get to a much better contract than 4S.

Just taking the words of the poster. If you bid 2N, to do anything other than pass 4H is masterminding. This time, masterminding seems to have worked:

Quote

4♥ cold since the strong hand is on lead.
5♦ only down 1. 4♠ was misdefended and was also only down 1.

Obviously, either result for bidding on is better than allowing them to bid and make 4H. 2N was the imposed bid. Bidding 2S and then doubling 4H has nothing to do with the original post. As others who chose to bid admitted, to do so in the posted auction is masterminding.