[marcD]

I would give North 90% of the blame. In a casual partnership having agreed to play RKC, I think 4NT sets Hearts as trumps. North had an easy and non ambiguous 3C (followed by 4C and then south can deny interest in C by bidding 4NT, any cue bid would set C as trumps). My only concern would be that 4NT be taken as quantitative (since 2S followed by 4NT is available) but I think unless clearly agreed 4NT is quantitative south should respond to RKC in H.
6C can clearcly be interpreted as bid 7H if you have something in clubs xx or CQ(since N is not interested in finding out about Kings)

[SoTired]

keylime, on Dec 8 2006, 05:04 PM, said:

I think there is considerable merit to treating this as old Blackie instead of keycard in this type of situation.

Putting aside for a moment whether North should bid 4N, I think 4N as responder's first bid is regular BW makes much more sense than playing 4N as keycard for hearts. I think an opening 4N or 4N response to an opening 1x bid is regular blackwood (or "Pinpoint BW"). If responder wanted to bid 4N RKC for hearts, 2S followed by 4N removes all doubt. Therefore, 4N was straight BW and 6C was to play.

[inquiry]

Coming in late to this thread... .here is a useful agreement to include in your RKC bag of tricks....

If there was a way to make a forcing raise of partners suit (with or without competition), then 4NT is NEVER RKC for partners suit. It can be a lot of other things, depending upon the auction and your side agreements, including plain Blackwood, but not RKC.

On this auction (1H-2H overcall), you in fact have forcing raises galore. Splinter, and ususual versus unusual for example. Perhaps (depending on what you play) even double of 2H then 4NT.

[keylime]

Ken,

I had an "a-ha" while I was writing to some Ultra Club notes with Larry -

I was thinking that since there's a known 2 suiter that 3NT and such may not be optimal. How easy would it be for you and pard to play something like:

1M (2M) ?

cuebid of their major = LR+
3NT = a "good raise" to 4M; start of any slam tries
4X below 4M = fit jumps, with exception of splinter in their known suit if possible
4M = preemptive
4NT = RKC

new suit bid then 4NT = old school blackwood

[Robert]

Hi everyone

If you have no agreement that 6Cs 'asks' for third round(or some other holding) pass that 6C call. Doesn't 4NT followed by 5NT show all of the Keys and suggest a grand slam in your methods?

I would have liked a forcing bid in clubs after that 2H call. Some hands might need to blast RKC, however, changing the RKC rules should be avoided since 'forgetting an exception' will normally be a shortcut to disaster.

Regards,
Robert

[HeartA]

Jlall, on Dec 8 2006, 09:54 AM, said:

Have to disagree with my friend Matt... asking for keycards doesn't agree a suit, it just agrees which suit it's keycard for. When partner bids 6C it clarifies what is happening. Certainly in many auctions 6C would ask for third round control, but when partner hasn't even made a bid other than 4N yet that shouldn't apply. Asking for keycard in one suit then bidding a slam in a different suit is somewhat common especially in auctions like this.

By the way if you thought he was asking for third round control why didn't you bid 7?

I totally agree with Justin.

[kenberg]

As I said at the beginning, given our agreements and lack thereof, I should have passed 6C. No quarrel here on that point. I am thinking we need to improve our agreements however.

Mostly I like the idea that when trumps could have been set first but partner goes directly to 4NT then, if it is ace asking at all, it is standard Blackwood. The problem I see, with a less than expert partnership, is confusion over whether trumps could have been set. I was watching a strong game recently, strong enough to have a good size group of kbs ( I know, there are various reasons a table might have many kibs, but this was due to the quality of play). They reached 6S (hopeless) rather than 6H(cold) due to a mix up as to whether trump had been set.

So I am thinking a short list of specific situations might be the way to go. In the case at hand, partner could have set trumps with 2S. An early on cue bid would indeed set trumps, or so I think and so we could agree. I think my partner and I, and I think many pairs, just are not detailed enough in our partnership to know always when trumps have been set. But we could probably make a short list, and probably even remember it.

For the folks who said pard should have first bid 3C, there is a problem. He has to worry that I might bid 3NT. Even if 4NT would then be rkc for clubs, he really doesn't want to hear 5D (0/3). What he wants is to find out how many aces I have and then place the contract. Playing that an immediate 4NT is ace asking, not keycard asking, allows this and would allow it even if partner did not have the king of hearts. As long as we can define clearly when it's rkc and when it is blkwd, I think it's the way to go.

By the way, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Best Holiday Wishes, to all.

Ken