[bid_em_up]

csdenmark, on Dec 5 2006, 03:59 PM, said:

bid_em_up, on Dec 5 2006, 10:10 PM, said:

inquiry, on Dec 4 2006, 09:40 PM, said:

Lebehshol never applies over 2♣ overcall. Lebehshol is a way (among other things) to signoff in 3 of a suit or, invite to game in three of a suit. Over 2♣ you can just play new suit at the two level not forcing, jumps to three level invite, and cue-bid game force (and double takeout), or of course, system on with double as stayman and transfers.  Lebehnshol always starts at 2♦.... at least that has always been my understanding.

While this may be the way you play it, I am fairly certain it is not what Ron Anderson describes in his book, "The Lebenshol Convention Complete".

But I am at work and the book is at home, so I cannot check it right now. The best I can do is refer you to Bridgeguys.com which says after 1N-2x, where X is listed first:

RHO bids 2C/D/H/S = X is penalty.
RHO bids 2C = 2D/2H/2S are to play.
RHO bids 2D = 2H/2S are to play.
RHO bids 2H = 2S is to play.

Many people apparently like systems on and stolen bid doubles over NT interference when 2C is the suit bid. I am not a fan of this treatment, however.

This is correct Ron Anderson - thats the one you have in full in the web-site link I provided on top of this thread.

Please remember 2♣ must be a genuine suit and after 1NT opening 2♣ interference mostly means something else(any 1-suiter or ♥+♠). Therefore Ben is right Lebensohl is not right here.

Please note, Ben stated that Leb. NEVER applies over a 2♣ bid, which was my point. It absolutely does apply over a natural 2♣ bid UNLESS otherwise agreed.

The original poster also asked what if 2C was Natural? How does leb. apply?

Unless otherwise agreed, LEB is fully on and systems are OFF when 2C is natural. If 2C can be any one suited hand, then X = penalty of clubs, otherwise pass to find out what their suit is and you will usually find yourself better placed in the auction on your next call.

jmoo.

[kenberg]

csdenmark, on Dec 5 2006, 04:06 PM, said:

kenberg, on Dec 5 2006, 10:15 PM, said:

Lebensohl/Bergen/Drury/transfers, even Stayman, have the potential to land the user in a no-possible-way contract if there is not time for discussion. All of these conventions are fine for intermediates. It's the pick-up partnerships that have trouble.

Ken the point of conventions are they will normally work just perfect for all who knows and need no discussions. It is in fact therefore much talk in BBO Forum is just confusing for many who want to take advantage from others knowledge. There are too little knowledge and all too much personal elaboration. Often it is impossible to see what is what.

There are oceans between Bergen/Drury/transfers and Lebensohl.
The first ones are all fairly simple and frequently used. Lebensohl is complicated and rarely used. Lebensohl will lead you to disasters if mis-interpretated.

In fact the problem here was not Lebensohl but transfers. Whether or not you are playing Leb, transfers may be on or they may be off after interference. The problem was that one thought they were on, the other thought they were off. I suppose you could say that the person who thought they were on thought that anyone who plays Lebensohl also plays transfers are on over 2C Capp. Well, they may or they may not. As happened.

Of course it's possible to say that one or the other person has the "wrong" understanding. I have watched quietly as many partnerships dissolve into bickering over who it is that just doesn't know what they are doing. I have seen this happen with strong players over simple conventions and lesser players with strong conventions. I won't say more about this, each person can make up his own mind.