[cnszsun]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     1♦    1♥
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

Where can we do better? Thanks

[mike777]

5 loser hand....I can really see myself doing the same at the table....

Maybe with a 5 loser hand we need to come up with something else?

[inquiry]

cnszsun, on Nov 16 2006, 10:29 PM, said:

Where can we do better? Thanks

Next hand, i agree with the bidding here. Unlucky they didn't reopen for you.

[jikl]

Next

[flytoox]

1H is not wrong, but perhaps we should give dbl a thought. We have the major suits and maximum for a 1-level overcall.

[the hog]

flytoox, on Nov 17 2006, 02:41 PM, said:

1H is not wrong, but perhaps we should give dbl a thought. We have the major suits and  maximum for a 1-level overcall.

The hand is not good enough for a X followed by 2H over a possible 2C. Nothing is wrong with the bidding.

[flytoox]

The_Hog, on Nov 17 2006, 07:34 AM, said:

flytoox, on Nov 17 2006, 02:41 PM, said:

1H is not wrong, but perhaps we should give dbl a thought. We have the major suits and  maximum for a 1-level overcall.

The hand is not good enough for a X followed by 2H over a possible 2C. Nothing is wrong with the bidding.

Did I say 1H was wrong? With a single suit hand this surely does not qualify for dbl then 2 level bid, but with majors at least dbl is an alternative.

[lowerline]

cnszsun, on Nov 16 2006, 10:29 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     1♦    1♥
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

Where can we do better? Thanks

Because of all the controls, this hand is slightly better then your standard 5 loser hand. The shape is ok to double (can stand any bid from partner and short in their suit). Therefor I think double would be my choice.
I admit that it is close though and that you are very unlucky they didn't compete with their 10 diamonds.

Steven

[helene_t]

I'm surprised everybody agrees to bid 1♥. To me, this is a clear-cut double. Not that I would blame a pick-up partner for bidding 1♥.

[Codo]

I have three possibilities:
1. 1 ♥
2. doubling and pasing ds weak response
3. doubling and bidding Hearts later.

Common sense is, that X and Hearts shows a good 18 and more, so this is out.
Doubling and passing will find some nice 4-2 fits in Club, which looks quite silly.

So 1 HEart is clear cut.

Yes you have maximum and pd has maximum for his pass. Unluckily your opps did not rescue you with their 10 card heart fit. Bad luck. Don´t buy any lots today, wit till tomorrow.

[bid_em_up]

This hand is not too weak to double and then bid hearts, imo.

The fact that you have both majors would make me inclined to X at the table, IN CASE partner happens to have 4 spades. This is likely to be the only way you will find out that he does.

[pclayton]

A little unlucky the opponents were so quiet with 10 diamonds. Both N/S are maximum for their actions, but both are 100% clear playing standard methods.

Even playing intermediate jump overcalls, its hard for North to find a call with his pile of quacks.

Playing Overcall Structure, the hand is a maximum 2♥ call (♠+♥; longer ♥ generally). North takes a 2♠ preference and I can see South competing over a 3♦ balance. This might get North to take a positive move, but its still tough.

[whereagles]

helene_t, on Nov 17 2006, 10:53 AM, said:

I'm surprised everybody agrees to bid 1♥. To me, this is a clear-cut double. Not that I would blame a pick-up partner for bidding 1♥.

When I used to play in holland, my experience was that people tended to play the italian way, with frequent use of ELC and lowering of the upper limit for overcalls. That might explain why the take-out seems clear-cut to you, yet it's far from it for others.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I think 1H is normal, unless you play that
a overcall is restricted to 15HCP.
I used to play this sytle, I learned it that
way as I started to play.

In the last year the upper limit of a overcall
has risen, so ... next bord.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: If my partner would double, I would
not mind, but I wont mind 1H either.

[EricK]

If you are going to play overcalls as strong as this, surely it makes sense to also reply on hands like the one North had.

I don't see how it can be right to keep the same style for 4th hand's responses to overcalls as in "the old days" but massively change the sort of hands which make a simple overcall (rather than a double) in the first place.

[HeartA]

This hand is good enough to double first. You have both majors and tolerance to clubs, and decent 6-card hearts, and 16 HCP.

[matmat]

2H overcall in the first place. 5+H, 4+S... oh wait... non-standard method, nevermind...

[cherdano]

My suspicion is that some of the doublers are overvaluing this hand. It looks like a bad 5-loser hand to me. Give me AKJx AKJ9xx x xx instead and I have a a lot more sympathy for double (but it would still be a clear 1H in the style I prefer). The given hand desperately needs fillers in both your suits to make it a good playing hand.

[mcphee]

While the responders hand is no so great I do not see anything wrong with bidding 1S, you do have H tolerence and some values. If partner had opened the bidding 1H I am quite sure no one would pass.

[HeartA]

mcphee, on Nov 17 2006, 06:15 PM, said:

If partner had opened the bidding 1H I am quite sure no one would pass.

True. But 1H opening shows 12-21 HCP, while 1H overcall promises 8-16 only.