[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     2♥
 2♠    4♥    4♠    5♥
 Pass  Pass  Dbl   Pass
 Pass  Pass  

I have been much better lately , by not bidding again when I have preempted unless forced to, so why did I do it this time ?

Excellent result (that is irrelevant I think as the GIBS def seemed to make everything easy for me)

what made me bid, was
1/. would that be a forcing pass situation (an area I have never fully understood)
2/. Should I have passed
3/. should I just quit dooing it period?

[P_Marlowe]

1) No, except North, nobody else on the table knows,
if 4H was bid to made
2) Yes, but it is close.
In case you bid, I suggest you dbl.
Dbl, which simply says, partner I want to bid 5H
but if you think, you can beat 4S on your own,
thats it.
3) see 2)

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

1) A forcing pass is in effect when it's clear from the auction that the board belongs to us.

This is not the case here. South doesn't know why North bid 4♥.

2) Yes. It's tempting to bid again with a void in their suit but partner is captain and you must respect that.

3) As for 1st and 2nd seat preempts, yes. A voluntary bid by preemptor is a non-existing call in standard methods. So you should not do it unless you have a special partnership understanding about it.

[kenberg]

There are people who dissent from the general belief that a pre-emptor should bid exactly once. Since I haven't checked this I am a little wary of naming names, but Alvin Roth and Marshall Miles come to mind. Both brilliant, both of very independent mind. I have also seen it suggested that sometimes the pre-emptor might double, with the special meaning of solid offense (KQJTxx for a weak 2 bid for example) and no defense. The idea would be something like: "Pard, if you bid 4H to goad them into an umakable game because you have lots of defense, leave it in, but if not bid 5". Probably you need to closely watch the vulnerability here. These are not standard treatments however, as of course you know. However, my partners are always allowed to place a bet of their choosing. I wouldn't do it here, but maybe a partner would.

[paulg]

There was a hand in the December Bridge Magazine asking a similar question - should a pre-emptor (in this case a weak 2-bid with a void) bid again?

The expert panel voted heavily in favour of not bidding, although a couple did (including John Armstrong who came 2nd yesterday in the Life Master Open Pairs in Hawaii). However a good number of them did mention that double should mean that the pre-emptor wishes to bid on but wants to consult partner just in case, but they would not use it as they regarded as a partnership agreement rather than 'expert standard'.

Paul

[inquiry]

What you need to do is to teach your partner to give you the option to bid again. Over 2♠ he could have bid a slightly awkward 4♦ fit jump. This way if they bid 4♠, you are allowed to evaluate your hand and decide to bid or pass. After a 4♦ fit jump looking at QJxx of diamonds and a spade void, you would bid 5♦ and leave the choice of final contracts back to partner.

Oh well. Here is a rule to bidding again uninvited to follow: Don't do it... and if you do it, you need two surprises. A void in their suit is one, a second five card suit would be a second one I guess...

[hrothgar]

inquiry, on Nov 20 2006, 07:50 PM, said:

What you need to do is to teach your partner to give you the option to bid again. Over 2♠ he could have bid a slightly awkward 4♦ fit jump. This way if they bid 4♠, you are allowed to evaluate your hand and decide to bid or pass. After a 4♦ fit jump looking at QJxx of diamonds and a spade void,  you would bid 5♦ and leave the choice of final contracts back to partner.

Are you seriously suggesting a fit jump with Kx as support?
Most fit jumps that I see actually have a real fit...

I don't think that its unreasonable to show your Diamonds, however, I don't think that a 4♦ bid is the right way to do so.

[cherdano]

inquiry, on Nov 20 2006, 06:50 PM, said:

What you need to do is to teach your partner to give you the option to bid again. Over 2♠ he could have bid a slightly awkward 4♦ fit jump. This way if they bid 4♠, you are allowed to evaluate your hand and decide to bid or pass. After a 4♦ fit jump looking at QJxx of diamonds and a spade void, you would bid 5♦ and leave the choice of final contracts back to partner.

Ben, I think you are double dummying here. You have only an 8card fit, and you have Kx in the opponents' likely suit. There is just no way this hand is interested in the 5-level by itself.

[inquiry]

cherdano, on Nov 20 2006, 12:02 PM, said:

inquiry, on Nov 20 2006, 06:50 PM, said:

What you need to do is to teach your partner to give you the option to bid again. Over 2♠ he could have bid a slightly awkward 4♦ fit jump. This way if they bid 4♠, you are allowed to evaluate your hand and decide to bid or pass. After a 4♦ fit jump looking at QJxx of diamonds and a spade void,  you would bid 5♦ and leave the choice of final contracts back to partner.

Ben, I think you are double dummying here. You have only an 8card fit, and you have Kx in the opponents' likely suit. There is just no way this hand is interested in the 5-level by itself.

I am not double dummying.. North did bid 4H so he was not worried about having only two hearts was he. IF north is going to want to invite 5 he should bid 4D. If north does not bid 4D, south is barred.

Would I bid 4D fit jump? No. surely not, because I would not want to invite partner to bid on. I have two likely diamonds, a likely spade and I have two additional side kings and partner has bid. I would be happy to play 4♠X. Of course here 4♠x happens to make. But my point was, south needs to be invite to bid again. He wasn't invited to the party. His partner bid 4♥, that is the last we should hear from South.

[Wackojack]

North should show his diamond suit. I think 3♦ is better than 4♦, since 4♦ suggests a fit, not just tolerance. Now when east bids 4♠ a bid of 5♦ by south is clear.