[Mcauley]

When playing inv.minor 1m-2m, opener continues with 2nt showing 12-14, balanced hand.... Question is , when the responder is a passed hand, what would be your 2nt range, still balanced minumum, or a bit different as we play?

[pclayton]

Mcauley, on Nov 13 2006, 06:26 PM, said:

When playing inv.minor 1m-2m, opener continues with 2nt showing 12-14, balanced hand.... Question is , when the responder is a passed hand, what would be your 2nt range, still balanced minumum, or a bit different as we play?

If Im playing a strong club, (after 1♦-2♦) then a 2N rebid by either hand is NF.

If Im playing 2/1, then I play 2N as forcing. Its akin to a 2/1 with a 2N rebid by opener that can be 12-14 or 18-19.

I see no difference to bidding IM's as a passed hand, although personally I don't play the single raise as invitational, I play it as the old fashioned 5-9.

[1eyedjack]

I rate a 3 point range 2N rebid to be on the wide side. If you were to open 1N with 12-14 there are some hands in which responder will invite to 2N that would qualify for an inverted minor raise opposite a 1m opener (in a strong 1N system). On those hands the weak NT openers get to choose whether to play in 2N or higher. That choice is effectively denied if you rebid 2N on 12-14.

It is not a problem that I have to deal with in practice that much, because I normally play a 12-14 1N opener, so that opposite an inverted minor raise a 2N rebid becomes game forcing, and with confidence.

It is also not a problem if your inverted raise is GF anyway.

Of course, I am expecting someone to jump in and say you should never play in 2N anyway, just bid 3N with an invite.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I play 1m - 2m still as inv. raise
and opener cant pass.

But opener will know, if he really wants
to play 3NT opposite a passed partner,
i.e. he will either bid 2NT if 3NT is still in
the picture or 3m.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[reisig]

For me - Inv Minor is NOT GF (yet) ..might be 10-11 with 5 card support. So - I use the 1st avail bid to show a weak NT hand usually with 3 cards in the minor (maybe 4 bad). Therefore 2N is for good hands.

[ArcLight]

Are Inverted Minors played differently in 2/1 compared to SAYC?

In Root & Pavliceks "Modern Bridge Conventions" 1m-2m, 2NT shows a weak hand and is passable.

Playing 2/1
We had an auction
1♦ - 2♦
2NT - I passed with 10 points
I assumed 2NT shows a min and 3NT would probably be uncomfortable

Pard said to just rebid 3♦.

Is 2NT in 2/1 forcing to 3m?

[blackshoe]

Arclight said:

Is 2NT in 2/1 forcing to 3m?

Some people (I'm one) play that an inverted raise is forcing to at least 3 of the minor. Has nothing to do with 2/1, btw.

[brianshark]

I play 2/1 and in my partnership, an inverted minor is 10+ and is just forcing to 2NT or 3 minor, so 2NT by either opener or responder can be passed.

[inquiry]

There are a number of issues you have to answer about 1m-2m agreements before you can answer the question you pose.

First, what is the minimum level for your 2m raise? When playing something like KS, where partner is either strong distributionally or strong balanced (playing a weak notrump), the simple raise can be as few as 9 hcp. This works well within the confines of a weak nt system, and openers 2NT rebid is forcing. This is less clear in 2/1 GF with strong NT. I like reisig use an artificial step bid to show weak balanced hand as opener. The range of 9+ for the simple raise makes the inverted minor raise in 2/1 more problematic. In fact, I circumvent some of these problems by playing criss-cross combined with inverted minors. This means the WEAKER of the traditional inverted minor hands are removed from 1C-2C and 1D-2D hands. And in fact, my inverted minor raise is quasi-game force (to 4m), so 2NT is forcing by either partner. Now, should I not be playing criss-cross, then it is only forcing to 3 of the minor.

[dank]

Most people play that over a passed-hand inverted minor bid opener can pass with a minimum (e.g. P-1♣-2♣-P is allowed), so there is no reason to bid 2NT unless you have some game interest. Therefore, the 2NT bid is invitational more than minimum, maybe somewhere around a very good 13 to 14 HCP or so.

[Strangway]

Good point Dank.

I noticed someone mention an inverted minor showing 5+ card support. Obviously to jump to 3 weak it should be 5+ but for bidding the 2 level 4 card support should be fairly common, moreso at imps where safety if more important than being in notrump.

[jikl]

We should almost have an inverted minor forum the number of threads we have had about it

Sean