[clayniac]

opener-♠ K95, ♥ A, ♦ JT95, ♣ AT842

responder-♠ A-spot, ♥ T-spot, ♦ AQ32, ♣ KQ763

Partner and I were east/west in an 11-table club game today. Not one north/south pair found the minor suit slam. I checked the traveler out of curiosity after the game. Even the clearly strongest n/s pair in the room missed this slam.

Should opener open 1 ♣ or 1 ♦ since not good enough to reverse? How should the bidding proceed playing sayc, playing inverted, playing various forms of criss-cross, playing blackwood, or rkc or minorwood or kickback? Of course how this is bid depends on various minor suit agreements and on various forms of ace asking agreements.

Input from top players on best way to bid to the club slam would be welcome.

Thanks,
Patsy

[kenrexford]

Playing the way I'd prefer:

1♦ (4+ diamonds, usually unbalanced) -- 2♣ (GF, artificial) --
2♠ (4-4+ in minors) -- 3♠ (slammish, club fit, spade control, no heart control, good trumps) --
4♣ (I have the missing heart control, plus the third club honor) -- 4♥ (I have enough to ask; RKCB) --
...

More explanation:

Opener's 2♠ showed clubs because of transfer rebids.

Responder's 3♠ meant what described because 3♣ would show poor trumps, 3♦ would convert back to diamonds as trumps, and 3♥ is the cheapest good-trumps cue.

I suppose upon further thought that I might also open 1♣. The auction that follows is, fortunately, almost identical. 2♣ is still artificial, but GF or a limit raise in clubs. Opener now bids 3♣ to show the diamond suit. 3♠ is still a cue for clubs, although without the "good trumps" message. This may induce a 3NT signoff from Opener, after which Responder will cue 4♦. This should be enough for Opener, unless he is sleeping.

A five-loser, fitting hand is difficult to ignore.

[HeartA]

I would open 1C, the longer and stronger suit, didn't like D lead from pd if opps get the contract. If pd responds 1D, I would raise to 2D, if pd responds 1H, I would bid 1N, and if pd responds 1S, I would raise to 2S. And if pd responds 1N, I may rebid 2C or pass (if opps wouldn't interfere). After 1C opening, how the opener shows stiff HA is not easy.

[inquiry]

Two options, both starting with a direct inverted minor raise...

Scientific - quick....
opener-♠ K95, ♥ A, ♦ JT95, ♣ AT842

responder-♠ Ax, ♥ Tx, ♦ AQ32, ♣ KQ763

1♣ === 2♣
2♦ === 2♥
2N === 4♣
4♠ === 6♣

2♦ = min 1♣ but unbalanced with singleton or void somewhere
2♥ = ask where short suit is
2N = short heart (steps low, middle, high)
over 2NT, responder can bid 4♣ RKCB for ♣ or go though cue-bidding, but here, opener must have at least five clubs (with 4144 open 1♦), and has AJ of clubs at most. So you are not playing 3NT (opposite stiff heart), so just bid blackwood and give it a try. 4♠= two without.


Non Scientific
1♣ === 2♣
2♦ === 2♥
2♠ === 3♠
4♠ === 6♣

2♦ = natural
2♠ = stopper
3♠ = fragments plus support, shows short ♥

After 3♠, 3NT is out the window again but with responder bidding ♦ and raising ♠ i think 6♣ will be reached on force... Auction from here depends upon if you play 2♣ only forcing to 4♣ or not.

[P_Marlowe]

clayniac, on Nov 11 2006, 11:15 PM, said:

opener-♠ K95, ♥ A, ♦ JT95, ♣ AT842

responder-♠ A-spot, ♥ T-spot, ♦ AQ32, ♣ KQ763

Partner and I were east/west in an 11-table club game today.  Not one north/south pair found the minor suit slam.  I checked the traveler out of curiosity after the game.  Even the clearly strongest n/s pair in the room missed this slam.

Should opener open 1 ♣ or 1 ♦ since not good enough to reverse?  How should the bidding proceed playing sayc, playing inverted, playing various forms of criss-cross, playing blackwood, or rkc or minorwood or kickback?  Of course how this is bid depends on various minor suit agreements and on various forms of ace asking agreements.

Input from top players on best way to bid to the club slam would be welcome.

Thanks,
Patsy

Hi,

first of all minor suit slam with only 27HCP
are hard to bid, espescially playing MP.

And even if you are the strongest pair you
wont try forslam,because everyone else will be
in3NT beating you, if the slam doesnot happen
to be thereand you have to stop in 5C or 5NT.

Assuming we a natural 2/1 SAYC like system:

1C (1) - 2C (2)
2D (3) - 2S (3)
3C (4) - 4C (5)
4H (6) - 4NT (7)
5H (8) - 6C (9)

(1) open for discussion, there are player out there,
who would open diamond
(2) inv. minor raise
(3) stopper
(4) min. value, no heart stopper
(5) having found out, that 3NT is not really
a great place, one may or may not bid
4C as a bid starting a cue seq., the
alternative would be 5C
But the 2D bid was certainly nice to hear
for responder
(6) cue
(7) RKCB, holding 3 key cards, the bid is safe
(8) 2 Key cards
(9) partner cant have the cards, which would make
it worth looking for 7C

With kind regards
Marlowe

[ajm218]

1♣    2♣*
2♦** 2♥***
3♣**** 4♣*****

* inverted
** relay, either to show a 18-19 balanced or a 11-14 say hand with ♣ and ♦
*** forced
**** confirming ♣ and ♦
*****slam going...

[keylime]

opener-♠ K95, ♥ A, ♦ JT95, ♣ AT842

responder-♠ A-spot, ♥ T-spot, ♦ AQ32, ♣ KQ763

1D-2C
3C-3D
3S-4C
4H-4S
5NT (choice of slams) - 6C

Nothing exotic needed.

[hrothgar]

The opponent's have a 10 card Heart fit and a 9 card spade fit...

Amazing how many folks seem to be assuming that they will enjoy an uncontested auction...

[neilkaz]

hrothgar, on Nov 13 2006, 12:33 PM, said:

The opponent's have a 10 card Heart fit and a 9 card spade fit...

Amazing how many folks seem to be assuming that they will enjoy an uncontest auction...

♣No kidding, but sometimes the competition in ♥ may cause the opening pair to fear that a stiff A isn't a good enough stopper so they head into clubs and end up in 6.

However, I'd strongly expect some preemption in ♥ (♠ may also happen, but is less likely with the opps having only 9 and missing AK).

That being said, even vs silent opps it isn't so trivial to bypass 3NT at MPs.

I'd like to think I'd get to the 27 HCP slam after opening 1♣ (my style rather than 1♦) and playing invm and minorwood.

.. neilkaz ..

[kenrexford]

hrothgar, on Nov 13 2006, 01:33 PM, said:

The opponent's have a 10 card Heart fit and a 9 card spade fit...

Amazing how many folks seem to be assuming that they will enjoy an uncontested auction...

I can only imagine the length of the post...

"If the opponents are silent, our auction is..."
"If RHO overcalls 1♥, then..."
"If RHO makes a takeout dfouble, then..."
"If RHO overcalls spades, and then LHO uses a snapdragon double, then..."
"If RHO passes, and LHO uses an inverted leaping Michaels inversion cuebid, then..."

[awm]

The interesting thing is that the more opponents bid, the easier it might become to bid the slam. Especially if the opponents are bidding hearts, some auction like:

1♣ - (1♥) - 2♥ - (4♥)
Pass - Pass - 4♠....

seems like a good avenue to get to slam. Opener must know that the singleton ♥A is huge on this auction, as is having five clubs headed by the ace, and the spade cue even promotes the king there. The only possible issue can be diamonds, and partner (a favorite to hold xx in hearts) surely owes something for the slam try. The auction could continue in many ways but I'd expect 6♣ to be reached.

In the unobstructed auction you need either good methods for inverted minor raises, or good judgement about whether to treat singleton ♥A as a stopper.

[keylime]

Richard,

I was thinking the same thing...but as a first-hand witness to Patsy's club players, competitive bidding is something that is "optional" against certain players.

[the hog]

1D 2C
3H
Where 3H is a splinter and now you are off and running.

Imo opening this hand 1C is quite silly and shows a lack of forethought: I don't like the 1NT rebid over a 1H response; 2C is a very poor bid with such a motheaten C suit - but I suppose some masterminds will bid 1S and claim it is a good bid.

[Foxx]

I think opening 1♣ here is automatic. Your diamonds are nowhere near stronger than your clubs; they are short and weak. After a 1♥ response a 1NT rebid is no problem. After all, you have the unbid suits nicely stopped. If LHO finds the killing heart lead against notrump, you can tip your hat.

After the actual 2♣ inverted minor raise, I would expect it would go 2♦ : 2♠ and now if opener can find a 2NT rebid, responder can pull the auction out of notrump, which could set off a sequence of cue-bidding; and here there is a lot for both hands to cue-bid.