[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     1♣    2♦    2♥
 3♦    3♥    Pass  3♠
 Pass  4♥    Pass  5♦
 Pass  5♥    Pass  6♥
 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass
 


What do you think of the 3♥ bid here, does north have any other options?

tyia
jb

[helene_t]

I don't like it.

As for other options: what about pass?

Or, if you play very light openings so that North has substantial extras: double, or 4♣.

[neilkaz]

I don't care for the 2 card raise on Tx since the 2♥ bidding may have only 5 of them. You might expect to get a ♦ ruff vs many defences, but the raise aided South in putting on the blinders and falling in love with his hand. I would bid 4♣ since the main feature of N's hand is the nice 7 card suit and decent playing strength, ( 2 aces, and distribution).

North can also pass, but I don't care for that with 7 ♣ and am willing to commit the hand to either 5♣ or 4♥ when S rebids a 6+ carder. S may also have a big hand and head for slam and my 4♣ bid paints a much better picture of my distribution than does 3♥.

South's bidding after the 3♥ raise is poor, to put it mildly (as one should do in the beg/int forum). 3♥ agrees on H as trump so S, having no idea that N has so much nearly wasted in clubs begins slam exploration with a 3♠ Q-bid. This certainly is reasonable, but then N signs off (or tries to ) in 4♥ which shows no slam interest and made the decision to bypass an obvious Q-bid in ♣ and second round Q bid in ♦.

After hearing 4♥, South makes one more try for slam with 5♦ ( I would pass 4♥ and play it there) and North again rejects with 5♥ and for some reason S bids the slam anyhow !!

Here's the slam bidding explained in parody.

South 3♠ "I have a spade control and am interested in slam"
North 4♥ " I don't have slam interest and have a minimum for my previous bidding"
South 5♦ " I still am interested in a ♥ slam and have a ♦ control"
North 5♥ " Once again, I stress I have minimum playing strength and don't wish to play a slam, unless you have an absolute monster"
South 6♥ " I'm blind and deaf and bid 6♥ anyhow, for some reason not caring or noticing that you have rejected two slam invites"

West X " Crush, Kill, Destroy "

[whereagles]

Difficult decision after 3♦. You can afford to pass because pard is bound to act (our side has more points than opps), so that's a possibility. Another is to take a slight flight of fancy and bid 4♣.

[jillybean]

If I pass can I really be sure partner will bid again and didnt bid 2♥ on a min hand, 5/6 ♥'s?
4♣ is looking like the only option

[helene_t]

jillybean2, on Nov 11 2006, 09:22 PM, said:

If I pass can I really be sure partner will bid again and didnt bid 2♥ on a min hand, 5/6 ♥'s?
4♣ is looking like the only option

If you don't have the agreement that pass is forcing, partner should not bid again with some semi-balanced minimum. Personally, I think pass should be forcing.

But 4♣ is ok.

[pclayton]

I don't like 3♥; 4♣ is better.

I suppose N could pass (which works well; South bids 3♠; N 4♣; S 4♥)

Over 4♣; I'd opt for 4♥ instead of a confusing cue of 4♦ - which can be played as "choice of games".

Oops - sorry - just noticed this was the BI.

[jillybean]

pclayton, on Nov 11 2006, 12:36 PM, said:

Oops - sorry - just noticed this was the BI.  

All replies are welcome.

[HeartA]

jillybean2, on Nov 11 2006, 12:37 PM, said:

What do you think of the 3♥ bid here, does north have any other options?

tyia
jb

It is difficult for North after 3D. There are 3 choices, Pass, 4C and 3H.

Pass shows a minimum hand with no good support for H, no 4-card S, no rebiddable clubs.

4C shows good C suit (and tolerable to hearts).

3H shows 3+ support which you don't have. I am not saying 3H is totally wrong. You have ruff value and side aces, 3H is reasonable but not the best choice.

BTW, I don't like South's bidding either. Even if North has 3 hearts, it doesn't mean no heart losers (after all, North had been refusing invitation with 4H and 5H). And how South will get rid of spades losers (possible D loser might be gone on clubs)? Void in pd's opening suit is not a reason sign.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I dont like 3H, but I dont like the
alternative bids as well.

So 3H is ok, you took a choice among
several options, which were all flawed
in some way or another.
As long as you know, that you mislead
partner, that is ok.

A pass by you should be forcing, but
that may or may not be standard, I think
it is nonstandard, since 2H is just forcing
for one round, not promising aa rebid, i.e
partner may have streched.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[neilkaz]

[quote name='HeartA' date='Nov 11 2006, 01:47 PM'] [/QUOTE]

4C shows good C suit (and tolerable to hearts).

[/QUOTE] [/quote]
Exactly why I bid 4[cl] since you have to be and are prepared for what ever PD responds. With two bullets and a fine 7 card [cl] suit I am willing to commit to game after 2[he] with my distribution. It is not guaranteed, but sometimes the opps bid 5[di] anyhow.

Hiding a fine 7 card suit in a constructive auction where you almost certainly have more HCP than the opps isn't my desired bidding style.

.. neilkaz ..

[1eyedjack]

HeartA, on Nov 11 2006, 08:47 PM, said:

It is difficult for North after 3D. There are 3 choices, Pass, 4C and 3H.

Personally I think there is a fourth choice: double.
I am not saying I would make it, but I can see some attractions for the bid (more than 3H, anyway).
I would have passed, and not been right bothered if it were non-forcing.

[mike777]

prefer 4clubs over 3H. Something extra but not game forcing and denying D cards.

[csdenmark]

jillybean2, on Nov 11 2006, 07:37 PM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ AJ4 ♥ T5 ♦ Q ♣ AQT8743 ♠ KT76 ♥ A987643 ♦ A6 ♣

West  North East  South

 -     1♣    2♦    2♥
 3♦    3♥    Pass  3♠
 Pass  4♥    Pass  5♦
 Pass  5♥    Pass  6♥
 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass
 


What do you think of the 3♥ bid here, does north have any other options?

tyia
jb

The problematic bid here is not the 3♥ rebid by North but that South missed to show game going values bidding 2♥.

3♥ shows nothing than this is acceptable for compete. It is a signoff. 4♣(bypassing 3NT) will be invite(if favorable vuln. it would be signoff as sacrifice).

With basic methods you will normally DBL 2♦ overcall.

In more advanced methods you will bid:

Pass(Inverted doubles)
2NT(Lebensohl)
3♦(Any Game Force)
3♠(ASK stop)

[Elianna]

I have a VERY slight preference for 4♣ over 3♥ with the North hand, but very much prefer double over both of those bids.

csdenmark said:

The problematic bid here is not the 3♥ rebid by North but that South missed to show game going values bidding 2♥.

As Jillybean did not say that they were playing negative freebids, the 2♥ bid should include hands that have game forcing values.

If they play strong jumpshifts after overcalls, which not many people do that I've seen, I would never bid that with this hand, anyway.

edited to add: Adam pointed out that double is penalty for us. With him I'd pass, because partner should bid on with anything more than a minimum 2!h bid (I don't think that pass is forcing per se, just that it's NEAR forcing ). With most of my other partners, double is t/o, so I stand by my previous statement.