[jillybean]

Here's a hand I played with Arend...

Dealer: North Vul: All Scoring: IMP

♠ AKQ9863 ♥ 86 ♦ Q8 ♣ A9

West North East South

 -     2♦    2♥    your bid?
  


jb

[pbleighton]

4S.

5D is not out of the question, but I would rather try to take 10 tricks rather than 11.

Peter

[neilkaz]

A quick 4♠ from me, bidding what I think we can make and not dreaming of the perfect 2♦ opener that makes a slam possible, in spite of the fact that my vul 2nd seat 2♦ openings are very disapplined since 2♦ doesn't preempt a whole lot.

.. neilkaz ..

[HeartA]

I assume 2D is weak 2. I would bid 4S as well.

[jillybean]

..

[keylime]

Bid what you think you can made. 4♠, happily, in tempo.

[Walddk]

4♠. I bid what I hope I can make. No guarantees, but it must be worth a try.

Roland

[FrancesHinden]

4♠. I don't necessarily think I can make it, but I hope that either I can make it or they were making 4♥. Seems a bit deep to do anything else.

[jillybean]

Thanks, uanimous, 4♠ is what my p said too.

I bid 2♠ and the opps ended up playing in 4♥X. When I look at this hand now its close to a 4♠ opening, 2♠ is not going to keep the opps out and doesnt describe my hand, why I didn’t overcall 4♠......sigh.

jb

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean2, on Nov 6 2006, 10:27 AM, said:

Thanks, uanimous, 4♠ is what my p said too.  

I bid 2♠ and the opps ended up playing in 4♥X. When I look at this hand now its close to a 4♠ opening, 2♠ is not going to keep the opps out and doesnt describe my hand,  why I didn’t overcall 4♠......sigh.

jb

Hi,

if after the overcall the opponents reached 4H,
it went rather well, since you have still the option
to bid 4S.

The main problem with 2S is, that it is not forcing,
i.e. you may play it there, when 4S is making.

An additional point: Your hand will have only
two defensieve tricks against 4H most of time,
and if you are lucky partner is able to contribute
one, i.e. there is a high chance that 4H is making.

This discussion / reflection about the defensieve /
offensieve nature of a given hand is not restricted
to this hand alone, it is a reoccuring theme, ... and quite
often I get it wrong.

Have a look at the following paper
http://www.carlritner.com/easy.htm

The link was taken from the book review thread.
http://forums.bridge...pic=8640&st=195

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Walddk]

P_Marlowe, on Nov 6 2006, 06:28 PM, said:

The main problem with 2S is, that it is not forcing,
i.e. you may play it there, when 4S is making.

I don't agree and I don't think many agree with you. 2♠ is definitely forcing. I am sure that most susbscribe to RONF = Raise Only Non Forcing. So the only non-forcing bid ('sign off' is a better term I think) by responder here is a raise to any number of diamonds.

New suit and 2NT are both forcing.

Roland

[P_Marlowe]

Walddk, on Nov 6 2006, 12:42 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Nov 6 2006, 06:28 PM, said:

The main problem with 2S is, that it is not forcing,
i.e. you may play it there, when 4S is making.

I don't agree and I don't think many agree with you. 2♠ is definitely forcing. I am sure that most susbscribe to RONF = Raise Only Non Forcing. So the only non-forcing bid ('sign off' is a better term I think) by responder here is a raise to any number of diamonds.

New suit and 2NT are both forcing.

Roland

Hi,

without the intervention I would tend to agree,
that 2S is forcing, but after the 2H overcall?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Walddk]

P_Marlowe, on Nov 6 2006, 08:04 PM, said:

Walddk, on Nov 6 2006, 12:42 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Nov 6 2006, 06:28 PM, said:

The main problem with 2S is, that it is not forcing,
i.e. you may play it there, when 4S is making.

I don't agree and I don't think many agree with you. 2♠ is definitely forcing. I am sure that most susbscribe to RONF = Raise Only Non Forcing. So the only non-forcing bid ('sign off' is a better term I think) by responder here is a raise to any number of diamonds.

New suit and 2NT are both forcing.

Roland

Hi,

without the intervention I would tend to agree,
that 2S is forcing, but after the 2H overcall?

With kind regards
Marlowe

Yes, I saw the overcall, and it hasn't changed anything. It's not different from

1♣ (1♥) 1♠

1♠ is forcing with or without interference.

Roland

[pclayton]

2♠ looks normal, but I play 3♠ as fitted (and forcing) which is a good description too, especially when I press on over 4♥.

4♠? This hand is too good, and pard will always pass. Take away the ♦Q and the side A, and thats what I'd bid.

[Walddk]

pclayton, on Nov 6 2006, 09:18 PM, said:

4♠? This hand is too good, and pard will always pass.

Sure he will, and nothing else makes sense. Do you expect a weak 2 to cover 4 of your 5 losers so that slam makes? I am more concerned about making 4♠.

Roland

[pclayton]

Walddk, on Nov 6 2006, 11:24 AM, said:

pclayton, on Nov 6 2006, 09:18 PM, said:

4♠? This hand is too good, and pard will always pass.

Sure he will, and nothing else makes sense. Do you expect a weak 2 to cover 4 of your 5 losers so that slam makes? I am more concerned about making 4♠.

Roland

Maybe I'm dreaming, but AK-6th and a stiff heart would make slam on ice.

Again, I have no idea how to get there, but I want to be able for partner to at least participate in the discussions at the 5 level over the upcoming 5♥ call.

Certainly there's a balance between the preemptive value of 4♠ and the 'informative' nature of 3♠.

[cherdano]

P_Marlowe, on Nov 6 2006, 06:28 PM, said:

jillybean2, on Nov 6 2006, 10:27 AM, said:

Thanks, uanimous, 4♠ is what my p said too.  

I bid 2♠ and the opps ended up playing in 4♥X. When I look at this hand now its close to a 4♠ opening, 2♠ is not going to keep the opps out and doesnt describe my hand,  why I didn’t overcall 4♠......sigh.

jb

Hi,

if after the overcall the opponents reached 4H,
it went rather well, since you have still the option
to bid 4S.

The main problem with 2S is, that it is not forcing,
i.e. you may play it there, when 4S is making.

2♠ was certainly forcing opposite the actual partner, and in American standard.

I agree it's not clear whether 2♠ is forcing in German standard, though.