[inquiry]

Scoring: IMP

(P)-P-(3NT)-?

3NT was gambling. The hand was played in The DongMing knockout. Roland allowed how no one has a system for a hand like that (well, i disagree, but that isn;t the point of this post). What do you bid over 3NT?

---

The commentators suggested 6H and the bidding went 3NT-6H at both tables. Can't hardly complain about that, but another consideration was 5NT(pick a slam)., which no one discussed. I wonder if there is any merit to 5NT? I mean, 8-5's are not every day occurances.

[HeartA]

6H is my first reaction and I stick to it.

[inquiry]

Jlall, on Oct 30 2006, 08:05 PM, said:

i think 5N has very little merit. This hand is a 1 suiter, not a 2 suiter. If you bid 5N 6C 6H partner is going to correct with say 32 in the majors. BTW I thought it was standard to play 4C over a gambling 3N as both majors, guess I was wrong

Any spade losers you have are not going away in spades or in hearts, correct? I mean, you don't expect to pull trumps and then ruff spades in dummy do you? Of course 6S risk a heart ruff.

[whereagles]

I was thinking of passing and cashing 10 tricks vs 3NT, but then I saw our side is the one that's vuln. Well, in absence of system, 6♥ looks fine, but I can live with 5NT as well.

[MickyB]

Yup 6♥ looks reasonable to me. I usually play Multi-Landy against a gambling 3NT, I suspect most defences to 1NT would work over 3NT as well.

[pclayton]

I play Ripstra against Gambling 3N.

Since I don't have a 'better' minor, I'll just shoot 6♥

[Walddk]

3NT was not gambling, it was a pre-empt in a minor (4mi would have been Namyats). OK, it's beside the point, but yes, I still believe that no-one has a system for a hand like that.

I obviously know what the contract should have been, but I think 6♥ is a fair shot. I doubt that anyone can find out if partner has the right cards for any slam, small as well as grand.

Roland

[FrancesHinden]

I agree.
You can have a system to show a major 2-suiter, but if it shows an 8-5 it ain't going to come up very often.

[whereagles]

I used to play something like

(3NT) 4♣ = majors, emphasis on hearts (could be 54, though)
(3NT) 4♦ = majors, emphasis on spades (54 possible again)
(3NT) 4M = natural

In this case I suppose I could try 4♣

[inquiry]

whereagles, on Oct 31 2006, 11:57 AM, said:

I used to play something like

(3NT) 4♣ = majors, emphasis on hearts (could be 54, though)
(3NT) 4♦ = majors, emphasis on spades (54 possible again)
(3NT) 4M = natural

In this case I suppose I could try 4♣

GACK.. you have zero clubs, your partner could have 6, 7 or more clubs... you really want to risk him deciding pass is better than a 4-2 or 5-1 fit?

BTW, I was not suggesting that I would bid 5NT, 6H looks like the reasonable bid, and I said so. I was just a little surprised none of the ocmmentators mentioned the alternatives, at least to my recollection.

[bid_em_up]

I'm slightly surprised noone has suggested simply doubling 3N....

Its almost impossible that they (or partner) can sit for it, and you may be better placed after the next round of bidding.

[FrancesHinden]

Doubling is a bit frightening.
Partner will sit it on some balanced nothing much hand.
LHO will sit it happily looking at

QJx
QJx
QJxx
xxx

(yeah, I know, a very specific hand indeed and I agree it's unlikely that double will end the auction - but why risk it?)

[bid_em_up]

FrancesHinden, on Oct 31 2006, 02:10 PM, said:

Doubling is a bit frightening.
Partner will sit it on some  balanced nothing much hand.
LHO will sit it happily looking at

QJx
QJx
QJxx
xxx

(yeah, I know, a very specific hand indeed and I agree it's unlikely that double will end the auction - but why risk it?)

Well, you're probably not making the 6H everybody else is bidding on your suggested hand, either are you?

And if partner sits for it, I will be content on the majority of hands. And I dont believe that RHO will ever sit for it, ever.

[Walddk]

inquiry, on Oct 31 2006, 07:56 PM, said:

I was just a little surprised none of the ocmmentators mentioned the alternatives, at least to my recollection.

Not quite true, Ben. Here are some extracts:

Walddk2: No one has a system for a freak hand like that.
CuttySark: Not a hand for science - blast it!
Cutty Sark: Pre-empt in a minor - makes bad breaks more likely.
kinman: X? and then bid 6♥?
jtr: or 4NT? then 6♥.
wilkinsona: X then cue.
jtr: X then cue sounds ok.

Roland

[whereagles]

inquiry, on Oct 31 2006, 05:56 PM, said:

whereagles, on Oct 31 2006, 11:57 AM, said:

I used to play something like

(3NT) 4♣ = majors, emphasis on hearts (could be 54, though)

In this case I suppose I could try 4♣ 

GACK.. you have zero clubs, your partner could have 6, 7 or more clubs... you really want to risk him deciding pass is better than a 4-2 or 5-1 fit?

Well, if pard had 6 or 7 clubs, he would have opened the bidding already

[FrancesHinden]

bid_em_up, on Oct 31 2006, 08:18 PM, said:

And if partner sits for it, I will be content on the majority of hands. And I dont believe that RHO will ever sit for it, ever.

I happy to argue the toss over whether LHO and/or partner are likely to sit for a double of 3NT, and whether we are going to be in the right spot if they do.... but yes, I would certainly expect RHO to sit for it.

Originally 3NT was assumed to be a standard 'gambling' 3NT showing a solid minor. If you open a gambling 3NT, LHO doubles and partner and RHO pass then you will and absolutely should pass 100% of the time. Anything else is asking for a new partner.

If 3NT showed a 4m pre-empt it now depends on partnership agreement, but again if partner's pass shows a desire to play in 3NTx and if you have your call why on earth would you run?

[keylime]

5NT I don't think is clear enough in overtones...since pard might pick a minor!

I think a takeout bid then 5NT might be better....