[Wackojack]

Scoring: MP


N E S W
P 1♥ p p
1♠ 2♥ ?

---

This came up last night at the local club. The opps were 2 LOLs. Although my partner's bid did not turn out well it did not seem to me to be obviously wrong. Would you have done as he did?

I will point out that we play that a 1 level overcall in the balance position could be a good 4 card suit and a double is otherwise normal. l

[HeartA]

I would have overcalled 2C directly. Now I bid 3C (constructive). 2NT is my second choice. Double would penalty and is out. Partner could have 4 spades only, and I don't want to support with 2.

[hrothgar]

Wackojack, on Oct 26 2006, 07:54 PM, said:

Scoring: MP


N      E      S      W
P      1♥ p      p
1♠ 2♥ ?   

---

This came up last night at the local club.  The opps were 2 LOLs.  Although my partner's bid did not turn out well it did not seem to me to be obviously wrong.  Would you have done as he did?

I will point out that we play that a 1 level overcall in the balance position could be a good 4 card suit and a double is otherwise normal.  l

Interesting hand

Few comments

1. I would not overcall 2♣ to start with. The suit is far to enemic for a red 2 level overcall.

2. I would not advance 3♣ since this would overstate my Spade support

3. I'm torn between double and 2NT. They're red at MPs. I have a defensively oriented hand and I suspect that +200 for 2HX is our best score. Partner's 1♠ balance suggests that we can't make game.

Mark me down for Double. (Yes, I know this promises better trump, but have you seen the garbage that people bid with these days?)

At IMPs, I'd probably bid 2N

[mike777]

Pass

Agree 2clubs is out, 3clubs is out, 2s is out....think 2ntx is down 200?
Hope for plus with pass?

[mikeh]

I am not at all sure that I understand the comment regarding 1♠ as opposed to double. Surely if 1♠ is a 4 card suit, it must be a good suit with a weak hand, else why not double? Does double deny 4♠?

In any event, those who would overcall 2♣ are nuts.. to be polite. That would be an idiotic overcall and I doubt that one expert in one hundred would even think of it let alone commit it. Ok, so I am not very polite... at least you know how I feel

I cannot bid 2N for several reasons.

I am almost sure to go down even if partner passes. 2N -1 may be an okay, average-minus board, and better than -110. But I may be down 200 or worse, and, when partner has the hand needed to score 8 tricks, he will usually raise to game. Make my hand Qx AJx KJx Q109xx and 2N is both obvious and easy.

I cannot double, because that double is PENALTY. It is not 'co-operative': it shows a trump holding such as AJ8x or better.

I cannot bid 3♣: what is there about the hand that suggests that partner fits ♣s?

So I make the sensible call: I pass.

Note that partner is still there. If he has bid 1♠ on some 5233 12 count or so, he can reopen with a double. Admittedly, my problems are not over then, but at least I can make an aggressive call (probably 3♥) comfortable in the knowledge that we own the hand.

Picture AKJxx xx Jxx xxx: would/should partner pass 1♥? If not, then think about how any call other than pass is likely to work.

[HeartA]

While I agree with and enjoy most of Mike's posts here, I completely disagree with him this time. I believe that, if not majority, a lot of experts would overcall 2C, with 14 count and reasonable C suit (heading with Q109). I think even Fred would do so. And pass again with 14 count is completely wrong, which puts all the burdens to pd to balance again, who has 10 hcp or so (assuming we have a game, we don't need 26 hcp since almost all of them are known in opener's hand).

[mikeh]

HeartA, on Oct 26 2006, 01:22 PM, said:

While I agree with and enjoy most of Mike's posts here, I completely disagree with him this time.  I believe that, if not majority, a lot of experts would overcall 2C, with 14 count and reasonable C suit (heading with Q109).  I think even Fred would do so.  And pass again with 14 count is completely wrong, which puts all the burdens to pd to balance again, who has 10 hcp or so (assuming we have a game, we don't need 26 hcp since almost all of them are known in opener's hand).

I wouldn't overcall if you added a random Jack to this 13 count...now, if it were QJ109x of ♣, you're getting warm and I would no longer say that 99% (or more) or experts would pass... but I stick to my guns here, strengthened in my opinion by my recount of the hand

[whereagles]

Pard's probably short in hearts, and RHO has extra length and entries. This kinda makes 2NT a bit iffy. But I think 2♠ has a fair chance to either make or induce LHO into a bad 3♥. I don't like double, by the way... what if pard bids 3♦ on

AKxxx
xx
xxxx
Kx

Anyway, I bid 2♠.

P.S. a 2♣ overcall has little going for it. That 5 carder seems more like 4 cards to me

[pbleighton]

I pass (I would be tempted to bid if the opps weren't vulnerable). My hand seems suited more for defense. Game is unlikely, and if we could make 3 of something we should be able to set them 2.

I would bid 2NT with another diamond.

Peter

[Free]

I pass: either defeat the contract by at least 2 or wait for partner's takeout double which I'll take out...

[HeartA]

mikeh, on Oct 26 2006, 01:29 PM, said:

I wouldn't overcall if you added a random Jack to this 13 count...now, if it were QJ109x of ♣, you're getting warm and I would no longer say that 99% (or more) or experts would pass... but I stick to my guns here, strengthened in my opinion by my recount of the hand  

OK, 13. But that doesn't much difference.

[pclayton]

I don't overcall 2C either. The suit isn't terrible, but the hand's texture sucks, and the honor structure is problematic.

I don't want to hang pard for a balance with a double. A-empty 3rd isn't a trump stack at any level (except 7).

I totally understand the comment about the balance on the 4 card suit. I'm guessing the original posters pard bid what my choice is: 2S.

I can't expect pard to balance a 2nd time when he doesn't know I hold a hand this good. I expect the 5-2 to play fine - even Mike's example of: AKJxx, xx, Jxx, xxx gives me an easy 8 tricks in spades versus a likely 8 in hearts.

[keylime]

I'm never overcalling a five card minor unless it's a good suit, ESPECIALLY with scattered values, porous suit texture, AND at red. -300/-500 looms in my future. I've seen enough "experts" on BBO overcall this trash and get it smacked down brutally - in one team game alone last year I saw this happen three times in 16 boards with each hand doubled in protective seat and swished!

Instead I'm passing and when I hear pard balance back in I'm not obligated to double: remember, pard did not bid 2♠ to begin with, showing intermediate values. I have to cater to pard bidding some of my values.

I pass. If pard's got a real hand of 9-10+ he/she'll double to protect me.

[mcphee]

I agree about the overcall of 2C, it is not sensible. As a passed hand partner can balance 1NT about 9-11, dble with shortness in H, bid a suit, pass. Partner elected to bid S and missed me, I suspect he could have 4 now and then, mostly then. Double suggests defending, who is that humgry. Bidding pass sure looks like the right action to me.

[the hog]

I also would not overcall 2C originally. Why should you? The suit is average to poor and you aren't achieviong anything except to leave yourself open to a penalty X.
2S is a possibility now, but pd may well have a 4 card suit only. At this point I pass and see if pd can re open with a X - similar philosophy to Mikeh.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

2S.

Depending on your opening style in 1st seat,
you can rule out, that game has a reasonable
chance, hence I wont invite partner.

Since partner is "weak" I will try to make partners
long suit trumps.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I did not reflect about a 2C overcall, I think Pass
is ok and normal, but 2C may work sometimes, so
either do it or nor, against the actual oppoenents it
may work more often than not.
1S may well be a 4 carder, but than it will be really good
one, ... would not be the first time playing a 4-2 fit on the
2 level. More likely is a garbage 5 carder.

[hatchett]

As to the original problem I agree that the standard meaning of double is penalty but I happen to think and play with some partners that double is competitive and this would be the perfect hand for it.