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What call do you take here?
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Opps re-preempt
#1
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Posted 2006-October-23, 16:22
What call do you take here?
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
#2
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Posted 2006-October-23, 16:26
dbl for take-out, what else? 
#3
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Posted 2006-October-23, 17:23
Double for penalty, what else?
Seriously, this is mostly a guess about which kind of insane bidder RHO is. If I expect RHO to have a 9-card suit, I will pass, but usually double should be right (we didn't expect to go down in 3N).
Arend
Seriously, this is mostly a guess about which kind of insane bidder RHO is. If I expect RHO to have a 9-card suit, I will pass, but usually double should be right (we didn't expect to go down in 3N).
Arend
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#4 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2006-October-23, 20:34
I make a forcing pass. X to me would say let's defend.
#5
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Posted 2006-October-24, 07:38
(foricng) Pass. Double is not normally takeout in this auction.
#6
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Posted 2006-October-24, 07:56
Why is pass forcing?
What if the partner of the 3♥ bidder is short hearts but has some other values.
Maybe 4H is going down but if we bid we go down.
My point is pard has shown a good hand, but he can't know that I have enough that a pass is forcing.
What if the partner of the 3♥ bidder is short hearts but has some other values.
Maybe 4H is going down but if we bid we go down.
My point is pard has shown a good hand, but he can't know that I have enough that a pass is forcing.
#7
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Posted 2006-October-24, 08:00
I would take pass as forcing. I've never formally heard the rule, but when a preemptor raises himself, it creates a force on us if we've competed.
I would also take x as penalty.
I would also take x as penalty.
"Phil" on BBO
#8
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Posted 2006-October-24, 09:34
pclayton, on Oct 24 2006, 09:00 AM, said:
I would take pass as forcing. I've never formally heard the rule, but when a preemptor raises himself, it creates a force on us if we've competed.
I would also take x as penalty.
I would also take x as penalty.
Yes, pass is forcing. If you need a rule, we have bid a vul game and the opponents take a save over it. Pass is forcing. The re-preempt rule applies as well, and double has to be for penalty here, and quite frankly, you don;t know what you want to do... so pass the buck back to partner. His second bid might not be so easy either.
--Ben--
#9 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2006-October-24, 12:52
ArcLight, on Oct 24 2006, 08:56 AM, said:
Why is pass forcing?
What if the partner of the 3♥ bidder is short hearts but has some other values.
Maybe 4H is going down but if we bid we go down.
My point is pard has shown a good hand, but he can't know that I have enough that a pass is forcing.
What if the partner of the 3♥ bidder is short hearts but has some other values.
Maybe 4H is going down but if we bid we go down.
My point is pard has shown a good hand, but he can't know that I have enough that a pass is forcing.
I would place this under the category of "logically forcing." I have never believed in the rule if we bid a vul game and the opps bid we are in a forcing pass, but here it is pretty clear who is doing the saving.
The opps stopped in 3H. The preemptor then bid 4H in light of no new information. The opps are white/red.
It is very unlikely that a forcing pass will give us our choice of -590 and -500 given these facts.
#10
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Posted 2006-October-24, 14:04
I'm not sure I believe a pass can be forcing in an auction where one partner has not guaranteed any values. The 3NT call is often sort of speculative and I don't see a reason it necessarily forces us to double all contracts. It could well be that RHO was about to double 3NT for penalty when his partner got in the way.
I'd double with the hand in question. I think this comes under Roland's favorite category of "optional" or "cards" doubles. Basically it says "hey I think 3NT was making" and suggests defending without showing a trump stack or anything like that.
I'd double with the hand in question. I think this comes under Roland's favorite category of "optional" or "cards" doubles. Basically it says "hey I think 3NT was making" and suggests defending without showing a trump stack or anything like that.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#11
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Posted 2006-October-24, 16:11
I think it's pretty obvious from the bidding that our hand is short in hearts. It's also pretty obvious that dbl shows some values
Shortness + values + dbl = take-out double.
Makes sense... to me, at least.
Shortness + values + dbl = take-out double.
Makes sense... to me, at least.
#12
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Posted 2006-October-25, 03:11
I also don't believe in the rule "we have bid a vul game therefore pass is forcing", so I don't play
3H - 3NT - 4H - Pass
as forcing, for example.
But, in common with others here, I do have a rule that pass is forcing if a pre-empter repeats their pre-empt. Why? Because anyone who opens 3H then bids 4H the next round is usually such a poor player that they'll misplay the hand anyway...
(I might change my mind if RHO were Zia)
3H - 3NT - 4H - Pass
as forcing, for example.
But, in common with others here, I do have a rule that pass is forcing if a pre-empter repeats their pre-empt. Why? Because anyone who opens 3H then bids 4H the next round is usually such a poor player that they'll misplay the hand anyway...
(I might change my mind if RHO were Zia)
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(3♥) - P - (P) - 3NT
(4♥!) - ?