[kiaora]

I have come across a person on BBO who besides playing bridge spends most of his time trying to win the attention of ladies.
He always starts his own table, inviting people of his own nationality. He blocks kibitzers and chat so he is in total control.
I must say he is a very able charmer and has no problems winning over a number of ladies. He tells the ladies that he loves them and that they are his only love in life.
I have been told this by at least 5 ladies and I am sure there are many more. Some really fall for him and have met him.
For some it is almost impossible to escape from him. He keeps on chasing them and he makes the ladies very strongly attached.
If they try to escape he threatens to disclose the affair to husbands. Some Ladies now log on invisible or under a different name to escape from him.
One of the ladies wrote:
“ I still have a problem making him my enemy I have told him he is not my friend anymore. Don’t forget he has my mobile number and email address. I feel like a victim.
This guy has taken something from me, I will not be so trusting anymore towards men who are nice to me he has taken that from me, while I write this I feel hurt.”

Another “I can’t do anything If I try he will be on my doorstep within minutes”

Another again “ I am pleased you do something about ------ he is a menace”


What could or should be done about this??

[Rain]

It sounds like you're hoping for BBO to help solve your personal problems.

General advice, which applies both in life and over the internet: Don't give out personal details unless you're sure you trust someone. And then its a judgement call, and like any other decision in life, there will be consequences.

You can mark this person as an enemy to ignore him, create a new name to use, or both.

If his actions are criminal ones, you can probably also report it to police or whatever.

[kiaora]

I posted this to find out the general attitude towards this. Not to solve personal problems.
I am not one of his socalled ladies friends.
I know this happens on chat sites, but I feel that BBO is not the place for this behaviour.

[doofik]

Allegedly bridge is a game for relatively awake individuals. These ladies could have fooled me (more so than their husbands) The whole story begs for an answer to one question - can this Romeo play bridge?

:-)

[helene_t]

I read this advice somewhere: if a stalker asks you for your phone number, give him the phone number of a bordello or a police station.

Anyway, I can't imagine how I would ever have got a social life if I couldn't exchange e-mail adresses with strangers. So it's a petty if stalking incidences discourage people from making friends on the internet.

[mycroft]

Over and above everything else - and it happens at the RL clubs too - report it, *with chat logs*, to abuse@. They might not be able to deal with the ones he's caught, but if you have evidence, they'll probably remove the account.

Blackmail is fun. No matter what it is, you get the standard two choices, neither of them good.

I wish I had better suggestions.
Michael.

[hrothgar]

I'd like to echo what others are saying: If this is a serious issue, then it should be dealt with by civil authorities. I have a lot of respect for Fred and Uday, however, it doesn't seem reasonable or desirable to expect them to start substituting for the gendarme.

[pclayton]

Rain, on Oct 15 2006, 09:54 PM, said:

It sounds like you're hoping for BBO to help solve your personal problems.

General advice, which applies both in life and over the internet: Don't give out personal details unless you're sure you trust someone. And then its a judgement call, and like any other decision in life, there will be consequences.

You can mark this person as an enemy to ignore him, create a new name to use, or both.

If his actions are criminal ones, you can probably also report it to police or whatever.

Would Fred and Uday agree with this Rain?

I won't go into any details, but there is a gal (I think) that uses several different screen names (I have them all blocked in black) that flirts with me constantly.

Is her behavior illegal? Probably not, but it is a little disturbing and it is bothersome. I would not like it if this person approached me in real life at a tournament. Why should I be punished because I don't use an anonymous name when I log on?

I doubt this is an isolated incident and I would hope BBO management has a ZT policy for stalking in the rules of the site. Maybe they do.

[fred]

We can't be expected to monitor, much less try to control, what happens outside of BBO itself.

If BBO member A is stalking member B, member B says "leave me alone", and member A continues to stalk, it would be reasonable for member B to e-mail abuse@bridgebase.com. Sending us evidence (preferrably in the form of screenshots) would increase the chances that action would be taken against member A.

If our abuse department judges that member A has broken our rules then he or she will be "punished" in some way (typically with a warning or by getting barred for some period of time).

Suggest you tell the ladies in question to e-mail abuse@bridgebase.com with the details if they think that the person you described has violated our rules.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[DrTodd13]

I've had 3 or 4 people that I don't know and have never played with or against spontaneously start messaging me every time I login. They'll call me friend and start trying to ask a bunch of personal questions often interspersed with seeming hero worship with statements like "why don't you have a 'star?' you're the best player on BBO." If they believe this they are clearly crazy. I just make them an enemy and that is that.

[Rain]

BBO will only take action against abuse that

-Happens on BBO

and

-Is a violation of our rules. (Summarise it to mean "be nice to others)

Action taken is whatever that is most practical, and includes

1) Advising the complainer/victim of the most logical way to stop the abuse
2) Warning of offender
3) Banning of offender.

--------------

If BBOer A had a consensual relationship with BBOer B, and this relationship included chat (since that's the only way you can communicate on BBO) that would be considered offensive without the consensual relationship, it is obviously not abusive.

If the consensual relationship subsequently breaks down, and one party decides the previously acceptable chat is offensive, or regrets his previous indiscretions, and feels threatened by the knowledge that his previous indiscretions are going to result in unpleasant consequences, then I (or whoever is running abuse) is going to make a judgement call, and I can tell you right now my judgement is going to lean strongly towards action (1). If complainer decides not to follow advice given, there's nothing I can do.

This is all pretty straightforward, and sorry if anyone disagrees, but this is very mild stuff.

However, if anyone should seek to actually attempt something illegal as defined by the criminal code, the victim probably has a case against the offender. That is a matter for the law.

I don't know the law well, and obviously there are many countries with different systems, but I'd say attempting blackmail sounds illegal to me. Threatening to physically harm someone sounds illegal to me if there's a real fear of this threat being carried out.

For alleged abuse of the sort described in the previous paragraph, document the threats (only if it happens in bbo) and send it in, and we'll take a more serious view of the abuse. But ahem, if something so bad happens, I think it would be silliness to stop here and think this (possible ban from bbo) is the worst punishment that can befall xyz the crummy abuser. Go to the police.

[Flame]

Some ppl have to learn it the hard way, if this wont happend on BBO it will happend at some other place, there is no point in trying to stop it.

[inquiry]

Flame, on Oct 16 2006, 10:22 PM, said:

Some ppl have to learn it the hard way, if this wont happend on BBO it will happend at some other place, there is no point in trying to stop it.

To the contrary... try to stop it on the BBO.. if it happens somewhere else, so be it, but on BBO we want a polite and safe community.

[kiaora]

Thanks Ben I have been hoping some one would say this.

All very nice to say that women have to toughen up and not play stupid games.
These are not games they are very serious. All very nice to say that it happens all over the internet. Wait till it happens to you your wife of your kids. I feel that there should be a zero tolerance for stalkers. Indeed BBO has to be a safe place nothing less.
I do not expect BBO to have controls beyond the site but if people have acted on BBO as stalkers and there is proof I feel that they should have no place on BBO never again.
Like in a life bridge club there has to be a code of ethics and conduct.
If I would behave in my bridge club like I have described I am sure to loose my membership.

[Flame]

inquiry, on Oct 16 2006, 10:31 PM, said:

Flame, on Oct 16 2006, 10:22 PM, said:

Some ppl have to learn it the hard way, if this wont happend on BBO it will happend at some other place, there is no point in trying to stop it.

To the contrary... try to stop it on the BBO.. if it happens somewhere else, so be it, but on BBO we want a polite and safe community.

Adults have a responsibility and right to control thier life, you cant control it for them, if a woman want to make a mistake she has the right to do that.
I agree that if there is something BBO could do to help children then it should be done.
Do you want to forbiden ppl to give thier phone number online ? maybe forbiden "hi" with a love signal attached to it ? this has no end.
BBO is an online bridge club and online bridge comunity, for some this might be the comunity they belong to more then any other comunity, and in a comunity you cant and dont want to close relationships.
We could close all chats, why do people have to talk ? we came to play not to talk. (when my wife plays online i wish chats were unallowed making her focus for a change). If someone is offending someone else then BBO deal with it, but to prevent two adults from having a chat just because maybe one of them will regrat it later seems very wrong.

[Walddk]

Flame, on Oct 17 2006, 12:27 PM, said:

... but to prevent two adults from having a chat just because maybe one of them will regrat it later seems very wrong.

That comment is beside the point. No one wants to disallow chat; the problem arises when that chat becomes abusive (stalking).

Roland

[Flame]

Walddk, on Oct 17 2006, 05:43 AM, said:

Flame, on Oct 17 2006, 12:27 PM, said:

... but to prevent two adults from having a chat just because maybe one of them will regrat it later seems very wrong.

That comment is beside the point. No one wants to disallow chat; the problem arises when that chat becomes abusive (stalking).

Roland

This isnt what i understood, i thought kia want to prevent the first part, the part when this charmer close the room to kibitzer and charm the lady, telling her she is the only one for him etc. At this part the lady we talk about want to be there and want the chat, there is no stalking here.
If this is ok but the only thing not ok is the second part when he stalk her then i dont think anything need to be change because if she contact any yellow it will be taken care of.
I think kia ment to prevent the first part so that the second part wont even come up, and this first part was a chat between adults and as i said and i think you agree, we dont want to close chats.

[hrothgar]

I don't think that its appropriate to refer to this whole affair as "cyber stalking". From the sounds of things, the individual in question is acting in a predatory manner. He is searching out vulnerable women and trying to cultivate some kind of relationship with them. This doesn't constitute cyber stalking and its not illegal.

A few select comments:

1. "This guy has taken something from me, I will not be so trusting anymore towards men who are nice to me he has taken that from me, while I write this I feel hurt"

I'm sorry that you feel hurt. However, it looks like you've learned the right lesson...
The world isn't a nice place and you shouldn't trust every random indivual who comes along.
Unfortunately, lessons like this can sometimes be painful ones.

2. “I can’t do anything. If I try he will be on my doorstep within minutes”

Two words: Restraining Order. If your relationship has transitioned to the real world, you're going to need to take corrective actions in the real world.

[pigpenz]

isnt this sort of what happened with the Gerard guy?
people who were stalking him got banned....maybe they werent stalking him but
were always kibbing him and bothering him to some degree. Everyone has the right to bar people from kibbing.


as far as the internet goes how and the hell can you tell male from female anyway...that is a joke unless you publicly announce who you are. Some of the weirdest nicknames are never even close to the sex you think they are, but at least you have a 50-50 chance of being right.

[rona_]

Quote

Mee Pok
********

Group: Members
Posts: 1169
Member No.: 2942
Joined: 25-April 05




isnt this sort of what happened with the Gerard guy?
people who were stalking him got banned....maybe they werent stalking him but
were always kibbing him and bothering him to some degree. Everyone has the right to bar people from kibbing.


as far as the internet goes how and the hell can you tell male from female anyway...that is a joke unless you publicly announce who you are. Some of the weirdest nicknames are never even close to the sex you think they are, but at least you have a 50-50 chance of being right.

Have you read the whole thread? And do you know that the person you refer to can actually play under a slightly modified name that protects him from kibs' chat? And then of course there is always the option to block chat to table so no one is bothered?
He chooses to play under that name because he wants a lot of kibs but then doesn't have the stomach for them. He likes getting people banned. Sometimes I think he makes silly comments to the table to provoke the kibs so that he can then complain and get them banned. He should change his nick to BBODRAMAQUEEN.

So I really don't think you are making a good comparison, but at the same time I also don't think BBO's job is to make sure lady players keep their panties on