[Flame]

its sad how no document i can found on sayc discuss anything that isnt easy.
1S-2H-3H is GF in sayc, but a strong player tell me we better assume that any hand with heart support is GF. Im not sure if this is true. I thought with minimum i should delay my support like in 1S-2H-2S-something-3H but he think this always show doublton only in the suit. what do you think ?

[Codo]

I think that 1 S 2 H should be nearly game forcing, even in SAYC.
I would suggest, that 1 ♠ 2 ♥ 2 ♠ 2 NT should be the only possibility to stop short of game. This makes the later bidding much easier.

[helene_t]

1♠-2♥
2♠-2NT
3♥

sounds like a slam invite with good spades and bad hearts. I haven't seen this sequence discussed in an SA context, though. In Biedermeijer it's non-forcing but that's a silly treatment.

[P_Marlowe]

helene_t, on Oct 20 2006, 04:29 AM, said:

1♠-2♥
2♠-2NT
3♥

sounds like a slam invite with good spades and bad hearts. I haven't seen this sequence discussed in an SA context, though. In Biedermeijer it's non-forcing but that's a silly treatment.

Hi,

I would think, it is nonforcing
in SA as well.
Since the direct raise is forcing,
you have to have a way to simply
invite, since 2H promised a rebid,
you can safely bid 2S and show the
support later.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

Codo, on Oct 20 2006, 04:15 AM, said:

I think that 1 S 2 H should be nearly game forcing, even in SAYC.
I would suggest, that 1 ♠ 2 ♥ 2 ♠ 2 NT should be the only possibility to stop short of game. This makes the later bidding much easier.

I take it, that you would also treat

1S - 2H
2S - 3H

as nonforcing.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

P_Marlowe, on Oct 20 2006, 12:06 PM, said:

Since the direct raise is forcing,
you have to have a way to simply
invite, since 2H promised a rebid,
you can safely bid 2S and show the
support later.

I disagree. The 2♥ response commits the partnership to 3x or 2NT in case of a misfit. Now that you have a fit in a major, most likely with ruffing value with the short trumps, you aren't going to stop short of game.

[whereagles]

In french standard, which is similar to sayc in many aspects, the 2/1 promises a rebid, thus

1♠ 2♥
2♠ 2/3x
3♥ = min 11-14 with real heart support (not a preference)

1♠ 2♥
3♥ = game forcing heart support, 15+ hcp.

1♠ 2♥
4♥ = usually a shapely min in SEF, but it's better used as a picture bid: good min with hcp mainly in the two suits, e.g.

AKJxx
KQxx
xx
xx