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V vs. NV, LHO dealer (scoring not specified) the bidding goes:
(1♣) - 1♠ - (P) - P - (2♣) - P - (P)
You hold:
♠: XX
♥: KXXXX
♦: AJXX
♣: XX
For better or worse, you decided to pass pard's overcall the first time around and you are in the dock again.
Is X by you now takeout or penalty?
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Poll: Penalty or takeout?
#1
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Posted 2006-October-11, 18:58
foobar on BBO
#2
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Posted 2006-October-11, 20:54
This should be takeout. Why? Because if the advancer has enough to dbl 2C, then he should responde some NT to pd's 1S overcall. SInce he passed pd's 1S overcall, he must have a weak hand with red suits.
#3
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Posted 2006-October-12, 00:54
Hi,
I would treat a dbl as a reopening dbl,
i.e. t/o.
But if I am not sure, I would simply
bid 2S, a 2S contract may not our
best contract, but partner cant understand
2S wrong.
With kind regards
Marlowe
I would treat a dbl as a reopening dbl,
i.e. t/o.
But if I am not sure, I would simply
bid 2S, a 2S contract may not our
best contract, but partner cant understand
2S wrong.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#4
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Posted 2006-October-12, 08:03
It is almost impossible for it to be penalty.
Had you actually held a hand that could penalize 2C, wouldnt you have bid some number of NT over 1S?
Had you actually held a hand that could penalize 2C, wouldnt you have bid some number of NT over 1S?
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
So many experts, not enough X cards.
So many experts, not enough X cards.
#5
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Posted 2006-October-12, 08:32
It's quite possible for it to be either.
If you had a hand with long clubs and short spades you might not bid 1NT or 2NT but would make a disciplined pass.
I happen also the play it as take-out, but it's a dangerous auction not to have agreed.
If you had a hand with long clubs and short spades you might not bid 1NT or 2NT but would make a disciplined pass.
I happen also the play it as take-out, but it's a dangerous auction not to have agreed.
#6
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Posted 2006-October-12, 08:55
FrancesHinden, on Oct 12 2006, 09:32 AM, said:
It's quite possible for it to be either.
If you had a hand with long clubs and short spades you might not bid 1NT or 2NT but would make a disciplined pass.
I happen also the play it as take-out, but it's a dangerous auction not to have agreed.
If you had a hand with long clubs and short spades you might not bid 1NT or 2NT but would make a disciplined pass.
I happen also the play it as take-out, but it's a dangerous auction not to have agreed.
Agreed: but on a frequency-of-use basis, it is overwhelmingly better as takeout and I would expect all advanced or expert players to treat it as such, undiscussed... and this is the advanced/expert area.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#7
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Posted 2006-October-12, 13:16
Sometimes a treatment has nothing to do with frequency. Most of us play this auction as penalty 1S P (2H), P X. That's because we don't need TO actions. 2S shows four spades and support for the minors. TO, unwilling to defend 2H is you can't X.
Same might be true in this instance. Why give up a luscious penalty X when it's right --when TO options can be handled by 2S (willing to play opposite a solid partner) or 2N --like this could be to play? TO for the reds and not strong enough to get in there initially for a nfc action and unwilling to sell out?
Funny thing is 1C 1S, 2C P (X) is definitely TO --probably to protect the foul layout occasion when direct seat has the club stack and the partnership have at least half the hcp.
Same might be true in this instance. Why give up a luscious penalty X when it's right --when TO options can be handled by 2S (willing to play opposite a solid partner) or 2N --like this could be to play? TO for the reds and not strong enough to get in there initially for a nfc action and unwilling to sell out?
Funny thing is 1C 1S, 2C P (X) is definitely TO --probably to protect the foul layout occasion when direct seat has the club stack and the partnership have at least half the hcp.
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