[Walddk]

Scoring: IMP

---

We are still in London for the Lady Milne Trials. IMP Pairs. You are vul against not and listen to 2♦ (Multi) from RHO. You pass, 2♥ from lefty (to play opposite a weak 2 in hearts), passed to you.

Any suggestions?

Pass?
Double (take-out)?
2NT = minors?
Other?

Let me help a little and tell you that it will take some imagination to suggest what the actual South came up with. Try hard, very hard!

Roland

P.S. What on earth is Hofmark Engel Bock?

[hatchett]

it's beer.

[hrothgar]

Why didn't I take a call in direct seat? Any call that I make now would misdescribe my hand.

Is 2NT really the minors? Having a bid to show both minors is certainly reasonable, but I question whether 2NT is the right choice. (3♣ seems a lot more reasonable. There aren't going to be many hands whether I want to balance 3♣ in a no fit auction whether I wouldn't call 3♣ in direct seat).

[cherdano]

This problem hardly makes sense without knowing what a direct double by me would have meant, what partners double would have meant, etc. But maybe the intention of the thread is something other than discussing an interesting bidding problem anyway...

[pclayton]

Walddk, on Oct 9 2006, 01:22 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

---

We are still in London for the Lady Milne Trials. IMP Pairs. You are vul against not and listen to 2♦ (Multi) from RHO. You pass, 2♥ from lefty (to play opposite a weak 2 in hearts), passed to you.

Any suggestions?

Pass?
Double (take-out)?
2NT = minors?
Other?

Let me help a little and tell you that it will take some imagination to suggest what the actual South came up with. Try hard, very hard!

Roland

P.S. What on earth is Hofmark Engel Bock?

Yuck!

I just know we are getting stolen from, but this looks like a total misfit. In my multi defense I would have bid 2♥ as a takeout double of spades directly over 2♦. Having said my peace, I would have respected any call pard could make, including pass.

After pass - pass, I'll just sit. While my hearts are sitting nicely, and I have a nice hand, we don't have a trick source or guarantee of fit.

What did the actual player do? The alternate calls I see in order are:

2N (should be minors, but if pard passes its OK)

3 of a minor (stress can bring out the worse in judgement and people do strange things). Horrible bid!

Double. Fraught with danger since pard will always bid spades.

And the winner is...............

3N - (da-da-da-ta!; Bob....tell him what he won!) She didn't want to miss 3N and didnt want to guess after 2N - 3 of a minor.

[zasanya]

2Nt seems a reasonable call and if 3 of a minor by P 3♠ would be taken as "bid 3 Nt if you have a ♠ stopper" by most of my Partners (Although not discussed) and even if he/she mistakes it for ♠ suit 5 of aminor should have some play.

[FrancesHinden]

I need to know two things
- what double would have meant in the direct seat
- the psyching propensities of my opponents (it has been known to pass 2H with spades at green on this auction just to see what develops)

If they are honest citizens, I would pass now.

[Walddk]

FrancesHinden, on Oct 10 2006, 11:50 AM, said:

If they are honest citizens, I would pass now.

Are Catherine Seale (East) and Nevena Senior (your LHO) honest citizens? You know that better than me.

Not sure what a double in the direct seat would have shown. I suspect 12-15 balanced or any 17+ (but it's a guess). Direct 1NT probably 15-18 balanced.

Roland

[Codo]

I would bid 2 NT for the minors and believe that "they" found 3 NT or 3 Spade.
Finding a higher bid then 2 NT would be easier if I would know, what X had been in direct seat.
If I believe in the suggestion, I would like to bid 3 NT now with a pardner who is able to think. This must be a take out of spades with a good opening, because with any other hand I could have bid different, couldn´t I?
But unlukily I am never able to find these bids at the table...

[FrancesHinden]

Walddk, on Oct 10 2006, 01:11 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Oct 10 2006, 11:50 AM, said:

If they are honest citizens, I would pass now.

Are Catherine Seale (East) and Nevena Senior (your LHO) honest citizens? You know that better than me.

Not sure what a double in the direct seat would have shown. I suspect 12-15 balanced or any 17+ (but it's a guess). Direct 1NT probably 15-18 balanced.

Roland

Catherine is, Nevena isn't.

[mcphee]

Based on the idea that I had a good reason to pass before I GIVE up now and pass again. I can't see how far I can go in any logical way, if 2N is for minors am I cue bidding 3H next, or S perhaps. Who knows, maybe passing is brilliant, I suspect not somehow.

[Walddk]

pclayton, on Oct 10 2006, 12:20 AM, said:

I just know we are getting stolen from, but this looks like a total misfit. What did the actual player do?

<snip>

And the winner is...............

3N - (da-da-da-ta!; Bob....tell him what he won!) She didn't want to miss 3N and didnt want to guess after 2N - 3 of a minor.

Excellent, Phil! The winner was indeed 3NT which South duly bid. However, the sad result was .....

-1400!

When one commentator saw the 3NT bid, he was lost for words. Well, not quite because he managed to stutter one:

"Jesus!"

Perhaps he was influenced by the fact that his poor wife (who had close to nothing as you can imagine) was about to table her cards.

Roland

[Codo]

Maybe his wife could have safed a bundle of imps, if she had bid 4 of a minor after the double?!

[Walddk]

Codo, on Oct 11 2006, 10:52 AM, said:

Maybe his wife could have safed a bundle of imps, if she had bid 4 of a minor after the double?!

Possibly if she had thought about it. Her hand was

♠ J76
♥ J10
♦ 95432
♣ J83

They would likely have escaped for -500 which wouldn't have been too bad because EW can make 4♠. The downside of opening a Multi 2♦ with ♠K10x on the side.

North passed the double by West in tempo. I don't blame her for not finding the much better spot in 4♦. South could have all sorts of reasons for blasting 3NT at that point.

Roland

[Codo]

Walddk, on Oct 11 2006, 06:11 PM, said:

Her hand was

♠ J76
♥ J10
♦ 95432
♣ J83


North passed the double by West in tempo. I don't blame her for not finding the much better spot in 4♦. South could have all sorts of reasons for blasting 3NT at that point.

Roland

Which reasons could South have for passing first and blasting to 3 NT later if she does not have the actual hand? (A strong take out of Spades?)

After all from her bidding so far, she declined:

- all weak hands (pass now)
-strong balanced hands (2 NT first bid)
- a take out of Hearts (X now)
- a long minor (Bidding first round or now)
-a two suiter (Bidding leaping michaels early or 2 NT now)

So what else could she have as her hand?

I`m quite sure, that I had not found this at the table (not as South and never as North), so I won´t blame North at all, but I cannot see many hands, which South could have bid this way.

SO which reason could south have to blast to 3 NT in your view?

[mr1303]

I would pass 3NT too with these cards.

Fred once wrote a good article about expert errors, and one of them was breaking partnership discipline.

The 3NT bid here is one such breach.

Bidding 4♦ might be a better result, but it might be a worse result as well. Partner got herself into a mess by bidding 3NT, so it should be up to partner to get herself out of it.

[Walddk]

Codo, on Oct 12 2006, 08:46 AM, said:

SO which reason could south have to blast to 3 NT in your view?

Maybe a running club suit and a heart stopper. She knew she would get another chance and would not commit to 3NT before she knew which suit opener had.

I really don't think it's partner's business to rescue South from what turned out to be a poor decision.

Roland

[Codo]

Sorry guys, I don´t get your points.

She made a logical descission and thought, that there will be just one possible explanation for this bid and that pd will find it. She erred in the last point. Partner did not understand her bid.

So the problem was, that she puts too much pressure on her partner, which is a serious problem, but no problem with partnership discipline. After all, 3 NT was surely not defined before this disaster, so it must be poosible to give this bid a special meaning as log as you are sure, that pd can understand.

And with a one suiter, she could have bid 3 Clubs on her first or second opportunity or double followed by three or more clubs. Many ways to show a one suiter, no need to invite a fourth one.

[Walddk]

Codo, on Oct 12 2006, 02:30 PM, said:

She made a logical decission

Really? I think 3NT is so bad that it defies belief.

Roland

[hrothgar]

Walddk, on Oct 10 2006, 12:22 AM, said:

P.S. What on earth is Hofmark Engel Bock?

A Bock is a style of German beer.

I suspect that "Hofmark Engel Bock" is a particular brand.