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Underbid and missed game
#1
Posted 2006-September-30, 06:28
Comments?
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#2
Posted 2006-September-30, 07:33
I had missed much better games before, so why bother?
North has max. for his passes, but South bidding does not yell for a game try from North.
South has a nice hand as long as he will find some quite special cards with north. Else, his hand is not more then 1 Heart 2 Heart- which is a way better hand then a direct 2 HEart or a 1 Heart and pass.
North has max. for his passes, but South bidding does not yell for a game try from North.
South has a nice hand as long as he will find some quite special cards with north. Else, his hand is not more then 1 Heart 2 Heart- which is a way better hand then a direct 2 HEart or a 1 Heart and pass.
Kind Regards
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#3
Posted 2006-September-30, 07:59
Codo, on Sep 30 2006, 02:33 PM, said:
I had missed much better games before, so why bother?
A lot of pairs bid it to 4H. I was just not sure whether they were all just lucky.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#4
Posted 2006-September-30, 11:41
I suppose that at N's second turn, after P-1C-1H-P, he might bid a NT. He has the values for it, although the Qx may give him pause. It's still not clear you reach game.
Ken
#5
Posted 2006-September-30, 12:03
1eyedjack, on Sep 30 2006, 04:28 AM, said:
Scoring: IMP
N...E...S...W
P..1♣..1♥..P
P..2♣..2♥..P
P..P
N...E...S...W
P..1♣..1♥..P
P..2♣..2♥..P
P..P
Perhaps at some of the other tables, NS were pushed. After all EW have 2 nice minor fits.
North really owes a push at R2. How much more can he have after passing 1♥? South could have another King and bid the same way. If South hears a 3♥ call, carrying on to game looks reasonable.
I posted a similar hand about a year ago and most felt North was the culprit.
"Phil" on BBO
#6
Posted 2006-September-30, 20:55
Both of Nth's passes are very conservative.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#8
Posted 2006-October-01, 22:31
Why is N passing twice after an overcall and a rebid with 8 HCP ? IMHO, North should bid 1♠ all day long in response to the 1♥ overcall.
#9
Posted 2006-October-02, 00:53
North is certainly max for the initial pass, but it could be right if South is min for the overcall, which could be on somewhat less than opening strength. You are arguably more likely to overreach by bidding than miss a game by passing. Possibly down to overcalling style. The risk of missing a superior Spade fit possibly tips the balance in favour of bidding.
{Edit}
In The Times (London) Mon 02 Oct 2006, Andrew Robson quotes a hand from the Buffet Cup, in which against Tor Helness, second seat overcalled 1S with
S:KQJ96
H:T86
D:J843
C:5
Are we to be content with a forcing new suit response on an 8 count with (for all we know) no fit?
{/Edit}
I am unconvinced by the arguments that North should bid on the second round for no reason other than that he is maximum for his passing to date. Examples abound in other situations where passing is automatic. This may not be one of those situations, but it is missing out a few steps in the argument to assume that.
If you are playing intermediate jump overcalls (on the first round), and South can now be relied upon for a hand too strong for such a first round action, then a raise by North seems clear. If you are playing weak jump overcalls then I can picture example hands by South that are too strong for a weak jump overcall, still have no game ambitions and yet not wish to risk selling out to 2C. If North is then expected to raise he might be accused of hanging his partner. Perhaps it is a good hand for intermediate jump overcalls.
Anyway, I was North and that was my reasoning, and I accept full responsibility. Looking at my hand in isolation I had expected South either to double 1C, or to overcall 1H then double 2C, or (rarely) to overcall 1H then 3H, if between us we had enough for game. Having looked at his hand with the benefit of hindsight I cannot fault the 1H then 2H action, so I agree that I shall probably have to rethink my philosophy.
{Edit}
In The Times (London) Mon 02 Oct 2006, Andrew Robson quotes a hand from the Buffet Cup, in which against Tor Helness, second seat overcalled 1S with
S:KQJ96
H:T86
D:J843
C:5
Quote
Per Robson -
Normal winning bridge: space-consuming, lead-directing, nuisance bid.
Normal winning bridge: space-consuming, lead-directing, nuisance bid.
Are we to be content with a forcing new suit response on an 8 count with (for all we know) no fit?
{/Edit}
I am unconvinced by the arguments that North should bid on the second round for no reason other than that he is maximum for his passing to date. Examples abound in other situations where passing is automatic. This may not be one of those situations, but it is missing out a few steps in the argument to assume that.
If you are playing intermediate jump overcalls (on the first round), and South can now be relied upon for a hand too strong for such a first round action, then a raise by North seems clear. If you are playing weak jump overcalls then I can picture example hands by South that are too strong for a weak jump overcall, still have no game ambitions and yet not wish to risk selling out to 2C. If North is then expected to raise he might be accused of hanging his partner. Perhaps it is a good hand for intermediate jump overcalls.
Anyway, I was North and that was my reasoning, and I accept full responsibility. Looking at my hand in isolation I had expected South either to double 1C, or to overcall 1H then double 2C, or (rarely) to overcall 1H then 3H, if between us we had enough for game. Having looked at his hand with the benefit of hindsight I cannot fault the 1H then 2H action, so I agree that I shall probably have to rethink my philosophy.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#11
Posted 2006-October-02, 11:45
A quick rider:
Assuming you choose to pass (as North) on the first occasion, but bid on the second, would 2S indicate Heart tolerance (in addition to Spade suit), and if so would this hand qualify?
Assuming you choose to pass (as North) on the first occasion, but bid on the second, would 2S indicate Heart tolerance (in addition to Spade suit), and if so would this hand qualify?
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. m
s
t
r-m
nd
ing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees."Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#12
Posted 2006-October-02, 23:46
North has a clear 1♠ advance--then depending on how constructive the partnership plays it, either South has a limit raise and Noth has an acceptance, or South has a single raise and North has an invitation which South will accept.
Unfortunately, this is likely to lead to the wrong game: in spades, we are likely to lose 2 trumps, a heart, and a diamond even if everything breaks well. 4 hearts is fairly good--it requires trumps to be 2-2 or a stiff trump honor to drop: about 70% but you need to shave some off as the bidding suggest East has a lot of clubs as he bid them twice but West didn't raise. Say 60%.
If North has followed up his initial pass with a raise to 3♥, this should get the partnership to game. The actual auction isn't so bad at matchpoints but even not vul at Imps its better to be in game.
Perhaps better than 1♠ or pass would have been 1NT, this avoids a possible poor spade contract but advertises some values.
Unfortunately, this is likely to lead to the wrong game: in spades, we are likely to lose 2 trumps, a heart, and a diamond even if everything breaks well. 4 hearts is fairly good--it requires trumps to be 2-2 or a stiff trump honor to drop: about 70% but you need to shave some off as the bidding suggest East has a lot of clubs as he bid them twice but West didn't raise. Say 60%.
If North has followed up his initial pass with a raise to 3♥, this should get the partnership to game. The actual auction isn't so bad at matchpoints but even not vul at Imps its better to be in game.
Perhaps better than 1♠ or pass would have been 1NT, this avoids a possible poor spade contract but advertises some values.
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N...E...S...W
P..1♣..1♥..P
P..2♣..2♥..P
P..P