[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

5♦ (p) your bid

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Casual partnership, you have no idea what values are held for the opening bid....your move.

[Miron]

Depends on vulnerability:
nv x any: pass
v x v: hard to decide, pass - better (some) plus score then minus score
v x nv: 6♦

[pbleighton]

Vul 6D
NV Pass

Peter

[HeartA]

This time I am conservative, pass in anycase. I don't have control in H, and no first control in C. Even if opps didn't find C or H lead, my 2 side winners (SAK) might provide the only tricks for 5D.

[Winstonm]

Double at any vul and at any form. Opps have pre-emted, not bid to make. Partner is expected to leave in this double unless highly distributional - what could he do but pass 5D with: xxx, KQJxxxx, x Qx? Here a takeout to 5H is appropriate.

[jillybean]

Hi Winston, your partner opened 5♦

[paulg]

Pass and hope partner makes it.

Although we often discuss avoiding extreme actions and getting a positive score when bidding in the face of opposition pre-empts, the same is true when it's CHO pre-empting.

Paul

[keylime]

Swish. Let the opps find their game.

[Mr. Dodgy]

6♦, wth

question: why the preference for bidding a slam when Vuln vs. not? I thought that a thin game vuln was worth a shot, but NV not worth the risk. I supposed the opposite was more true for slams.

[whereagles]

Pass. Who knows what pard has...? I've seen such loonies at the table.. lol

Even with a solid pard it's not clear to move on. Besides, some people don't even look at vulnerabilities when it comes to preemption.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi.

Pass, red vs. green, 6D is an option,
but even than I would Pass.
At any other vul. slam is probably
not better than 50%, change the KJ of
club to an Ace, and you certainly should
bid 6D, except green vs. red.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[inquiry]

Mr. Dodgy, on Sep 29 2006, 03:22 AM, said:

6♦, wth

question: why the preference for bidding a slam when Vuln vs. not? I thought that a thin game vuln was worth a shot, but NV not worth the risk. I supposed the opposite was more true for slams.

This relates to how preempts work. Some use the rule of 2 or 3, which means if vulnerable they will be within 2 tricks of their preempt when vul and 3 when not vul. Others are more aggressive, some play rule of 5431. This means they are within

5 tricks of their bid if they are not vul and their opponents are
4 tricks of their bid if neither side is vul
3 tricks of their bid if both sides are vul
1 trick of their bid if they are vul and opponents are not.

Still others ignore vulnerability all together (especially at matchponts)

If opener was using rule of 2/3, then 5D shows 8 tricks not vul and 9 tricks vul. You have 3 "sure tricks" (assuming partner is not vioid in spades) so 8+3=11 so 5D should make. IF vul, partner has 9 tricks, 9+3 = 12 tricks. In both cases you have the club king in reserve (maybe an additional cover). But don't think grand, surely your partner did not preempt with two aces (club and heart).

the problem with this hand, is even if your partner has 9 winners, you be off two quick heart tricks. For istance, give partner this hand...

x xx KQJxxxxx Ax

They can take the first two hearts. So adding winners to and expected tricks does not lead to the correct contract all the time. On the other hand, if you bid 6D, they have to find the heart lead .

Not vul I pass and hope we make. Vul versus vul, I would pass as well. Only we vul and they not vul would I bid 6D.

[jillybean]

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     -     -     5♦
 Pass  6♦    Pass  Pass
 Pass  


Here’s the full hand 6♦-1 – my only thoughts about this vulnerability were that he would have better than normal hand for the 5♦(whatever normal is for 5♦), it was really just a guess. I see I need to rethink that.

correction: I have the vulnerability set wrong

[whereagles]

Well, it's a good slam after all. You just need to guess clubs.

[neilkaz]

Mr. Dodgy, on Sep 29 2006, 03:22 AM, said:

6♦, wth

question: why the preference for bidding a slam when Vuln vs. not? I thought that a thin game vuln was worth a shot, but NV not worth the risk. I supposed the opposite was more true for slams.

The reason to bid the slam Vul rather than not is that the 5♦ opener likely has a better hand Vul than not, thereby making 6♦ a decent shot.

I don't like my ♥ but opposite a sound vul preemptor I'd take a shot at 6♦ vul myself and perhaps the opps don't find a quick cashout of 2♥ and we can pitch enough somewhere.

.. neilkaz ..