[david_c]

LHO opens 1♠, and partner overcalls 3♠ asking you to bid 3NT if you have a spade stop (presumably he has a long running minor). However RHO sticks in a raise to 4♠. Now what should a 4NT bid mean?

Sorry partner, it seemed like a good idea at the time ...

[Al_U_Card]

I would expect 5C to be pass or correct.....but 4NT has to be to play (as would have been 3NT) Slam tries would have to start at 5D.....darn those pesky preempts!!

[hrothgar]

Good question... I'm glad that i haven't run into this one before now.

Here are my thoughts:

5♣ should be pass or correct.

Bids from 5♦+ can be used as specialized slam asking bids. Not sure how to best make use of the bidding space, but natural doesn't make sense

There are 2 reasonable interpretions for 4NT.

Option 1: 4NT is natural. You have a first or second round Spade control and some reason to believe that you are going to provide partner with an extra trick.

Option 2: 4NT is some kind of quantitative ask. If you are willing try for slam, odds are that you know what partner's suit is. Not sure what the most critical information is under these circumstances. Here, once again I see two reasonable interpretations

Option 2(a). Asks for Aces
Option 2(B). Asks for the number of tricks that the 3♠ bidder can take opposite Kxx in Spades. In theory, you might even be able to build a response schedule that looks something like

4NT = 10 tricks
5m = 11 tricks
5 other m = 12 tricks

In retrospect, Option 2b is simply a more complex version of option 1.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I just discard meaning, which make no sense
- to play, there exists a other bid for that, and the card is red
- Blackwood ? On which Basis?

4NT asks for the minor and is a stronger move as 5C,
which is just a pass or correct bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[whereagles]

I've seen this sort of bid every now and then, and it was always made on 'to play' grounds. Bidder had a stopper and a side trick or two and didn't think a penalty was good enough.

[cherdano]

Oops I misvoted, I thought partner had Michaels'd. I would take 4N as to play.

[Walddk]

To play. "I think we have enough for 4NT to make, with your 7-card solid minor and bits and pieces outside. And I don't think we get enough compensation by doubling 4♠; maybe we can't even defeat it".

5♣ would be pass or correct as I play it.

Roland

[hrothgar]

P_Marlowe, on Sep 25 2006, 05:41 PM, said:

I just discard meaning, which make no sense
- to play, there exists a other bid for that, and the card is red

Let me get this straight

The auction has started

(1♠) - 3♠ - (4♠) - ???

You hold

Kxx
Kxxxx
xxx
xx

Are you seriously suggesting that you prefer a penalty double to declaring 4NT?

[FrancesHinden]

I've had this auction (honestly!).
To play.

(By the way, rather than "some specialised slam asking bid" I would probably take 5D as to play in 5D, but happy to play 6C and so forth - pass-or-correct)

[P_Marlowe]

hrothgar, on Sep 25 2006, 09:58 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Sep 25 2006, 05:41 PM, said:

I just discard meaning, which make no sense
- to play, there exists a other bid for that, and the card is red

Let me get this straight

The auction has started

(1♠) - 3♠ - (4♠) - ???

You hold

Kxx
Kxxxx
xxx
xx

Are you seriously suggesting that you prefer a penalty double to declaring 4NT?

Hi,

yes.

Just let us count our tricks
- 7 minor tricks
- 1 Ace from partner outside his minor
- my spade trick
Makes 9 tricks.

And that assumes they attack spades and
not the suit, where partner has only one stopper.

4NT to play makes only sense if you
believe, that you have 10 running tricks.
I dont.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Given specific vulnerabilities, one may come
to the conclusion that 4NT may have its merrits,
but I would like to take my certain plus score.

[hrothgar]

FrancesHinden, on Sep 25 2006, 06:12 PM, said:

(By the way, rather than "some specialised slam asking bid" I would probably take 5D as to play in 5D, but happy to play 6C and so forth - pass-or-correct)

Hi Frances

I didn't spend much time thinking about the 5♦ advance, however, a paradox style advance (pass if you have Diamonds, otherwise bid 6♣) didn't seem as if would occur very frequently.

Thankfully, this is a rare auction

[cherdano]

I agree Richard's hand is a tad light for 4N, but make the ♥K the ace and I would definitely like to be in 4N. In fact, it could well be that both 4N and 4♠ make.

Arend

[cherdano]

hrothgar, on Sep 25 2006, 05:22 PM, said:

FrancesHinden, on Sep 25 2006, 06:12 PM, said:

(By the way, rather than "some specialised slam asking bid" I would probably take 5D as to play in 5D, but happy to play 6C and so forth - pass-or-correct)

Hi Frances

I didn't spend much time thinking about the 5♦ advance, however, a paradox style advance (pass if you have Diamonds, otherwise bid 6♣) didn't seem as if would occur very frequently.

Thankfully, this is a rare auction

Sometimes you also know partner has diamonds, and you just want to bid them. (To leave less room for opponents, and maybe protect some holding from the lead.)

Arend

[hatchett]

I feel strongly 4NT is to play. This could easily be a situation where both 4♠ and 4NT are making, or 4NT could even be the cheapest save against 4♠; say you hold Axx xxx xxx xxxx. 4NT is an attractive double shot.

[mikeh]

I second Frances' post: I have had the 4N bid occur: I would agree that 5m is p/c, but would admit to being a little worried if I were a passed hand, bidding 5♦, in an untried partnership.

[SoTired]

Overcaller has asked advancer a question. If 4N is not "to play" how is advancer giving a positive reply to the question? With a Dbl? Isn't dbl something like ♠J10xx with some other honors. Dbl says,"I don't know if we can make 3N, but they are not making 4S."

So, just on that basis, 4N is to play.

5C is an obvious pass or correct. So you don't need 4N for that.

4N cannot be some kind of quantitative slam try. Based on what quantity? Overcaller is unknown and unlimited, so advancer cannot say, "Bid on with a max," because there is no defined min and max.

Similarly, 4N cannot be some kind of Blackwood, because overcaller is unknown and unlimited, so any slam try is guessing anyway.

I don't know if 5D is some kind of slam try or not. Maybe it could be treated similar to a multi-2D 2S response. Pass if your suit is diam, bid 6C if it is clubs.

[the hog]

4NT is to play as 5m is pass/correct. Like Frances, I too have had this auction.

"4NT to play makes only sense if you
believe, that you have 10 running tricks.
I dont."
4NT to play also makes sense if you believe they may make 4S!