[Chamaco]

Hi all !

With my current team we play a version of Precision with control responses (uncontested; if opps stick in, we revert to more or less natural methods).

Here is the outline of the structure :

1♣
.....1♦ = 0-7 OR positive unbalaced with 6+ controls
.....1♥ = positive unbalaced with 0-2 controls
.....1♠ = positive unbalaced with 3 controls
.....1NT = positive unbalaced with 4 controls
.....2♣ = positive unbalaced with 5 controls, WITH at least a 4+ card major
.....2♦ = "Multi" = weak 2 in a major (say 3-6+/7- hcp or so) OR positive unbalaced with 5 controls, NO MAJOR
.....2♥,♠,NT = positive balanced, 8-10/11-13/14+
.....3X = various shapes and ranges for positive 4441's

Other important features of the system are:
- 1♣:1♦:1♥ is a strong relay (usually 19+)
- 4-losers 2 suiters (say 16-18 55xx) are opened directly at the 2S and higher level, so these hands won't be opened 1C
- 3- losers 2 suiters (e.g. 19+ 55xx) shall open 1C and over a negative response shall jump rebid 2S or higher.
- 1NT opening is (12+)13-15, and 1♣:1♦:1NT is 16-18
- we play "real" 1D opening, usually unbalanced, might be (14)=3=5 with bad clubs
- we open 2D "Multi" = weak 2 or (16+) 17-20 three suiter 4441's
- 2H opening is for minimum openings with short diamonds

I might have missed some points but more or less you get the idea of what the system looks like

================================

Now that I have described the premises,
HERE IS THE QUESTION

Opener's 2nd round rebid after a 1D response:

1♣:1♦:
.......1♠
.......1NT
.......2♣♦♥

Are all non forcing, showing a minimum 1C opener.

Now, in traditional precision, responder has already limited his hand to 0-7.
In this case, instead, responder might still hold a positive unbalanced hand 6+ controls, with good slam prospects.

I would like, ideally to be able as responder to do both of the following:
- bid my suit, encouraging, nonforcing
- have a GF bid available, to tell pard, "Hey, I am not negative, i have indeed a 6+ controls hand, and slam is still in the picture".

This is not a big deal in the sequence 1♣:1♦:1NT, because by using common tools as transfers, and staymanic relays, it is still possible to stay in familiar ground.

But, I am lost especially in the sequences 1♣:1♦:2♣♦♥, where I'd like to be able to bid a suit nonforcing at the 2 level, but also to be able to probe for slam.

Any suggestions without introducing major changes to the system ?
(I know some shall argue this is badly flawed, but at this point in time i cannot get my teammates to change it, so if you mean to respond, please do it under the above premises )

[whereagles]

I've actually played a similar thing once:

1♣ 1♦ = 0-8 or 13+

Then 1♠...2♥ were natural, min. Much like yours. The way to show strong hands of 13+ was to relay and bid new suits, e.g.

1♣ 1♦

1♠ ..? = now 1NT was forcing and other bids nat 5-7. Resp next bid at 2/3 lev after 1NT = very weak/strong.

1NT ...? = simple. Just system on.

2♣ ..? = now 2♦ was relay. New suit after relay = very strong. Other sequences weakish 0-7.

2♦ ..? = now 2♥ was relay. As above.

2♥ ..? = now 2NT was relay. As above.

So basically the way to force was "relay + new suit", and other sequences showed the 0-7 variant.

Did I like this scheme? NO, I HATED IT. I played it just for pard's sake. My main issue with is is the gigantic waste of space on strong hands. It would be a PAIN just to support pard's suit with the 13+ hand.

[mikestar]

I don't know how major a change this is, but how about this possibility: put the 6+ control hand in with 1♥ rather than 1♦. Then your 1♦ response is traditional and after 1♥ you are in a game force situation--you can search for your fit and then take control afterwards. There should be various bids that a 0-2 control "game but no slam" hand would not make--these will show 6+.

[Chamaco]

mikestar, on Sep 23 2006, 05:17 AM, said:

I don't know how major a change this is, but how about this possibility: put the 6+ control hand in with 1♥ rather than 1♦. Then your 1♦ response is traditional and after 1♥ you are in a game force situation--you can search for your fit and then take control afterwards. There should be various bids that a 0-2 control "game but no slam" hand would not make--these will show 6+.

Ty a lot Mike !
Yes, I think your suggestion sounds quite appealing to me (effective without messing up the largest part of the system), I'll talk about that with my buddies. :-)

And thx also to Nuno for sharing his experience :-)