[pigpenz]

auction: vul vs vul
2♥ double 2♠ double
pass your call

---

do you take this second double as repsonsive or penalty

[hatchett]

Penalty is normal, analagous to (1♥) X (1♠) X. Both are common positions for the ♠ bidder to be having a joke.

[pigpenz]

is is very easy to make the baby pysche in those situations with a fit with partner. So double i have always played for penalty and 2nt as takeout.

[pclayton]

Penalty; not close.

Predict unananimity here.

[FrancesHinden]

pclayton, on Sep 21 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

Penalty; not close.

Predict unananimity here.

So far, amazingly, you even have it.

[kenberg]

Penalty.

Penalty is my strongly held opinion, and seems to be the clear choice. A question, however.

I watched some of the just concluded Buffett (Warren not Jimmy) Cup, USA vs Europe. Apparently the rules stipulate that the entire USA plays the USA card, and all Europeans play the European card. So I downloaded the USA card. Under doubles, one line says "All low level doubles NOT penalty". I have heard this slogan before. Should I assume that USA would have played this as take-out, or should I be taking "all" with Jimmy Buffett's shaker of salt . I assume 2S qualifies as low level.

Ken

[mikeh]

penalty: anyone who differs plays a distinctly non-standard approach.

[bid_em_up]

kenberg, on Sep 21 2006, 02:42 PM, said:

Penalty.

Penalty is my strongly held opinion, and seems to be the clear choice. A question, however.

I watched some of the just concluded Buffett (Warren not Jimmy) Cup, USA vs Europe. Apparently the rules stipulate that the entire USA plays the USA card, and all Europeans play the European card. So I downloaded the USA card. Under doubles, one line says "All low level doubles NOT penalty". I have heard this slogan before. Should I assume that USA would have played this as take-out, or should I be taking "all" with Jimmy Buffett's shaker of salt . I assume 2S qualifies as low level.

Ken

While it is a "low-level" penalty-oriented double......that is not what the CC means. The X in this case, is not so much an attempt to defend 2S x'd (although you would be happy to do so) so much as it is simply psyche exposing, since you can be almost 100% certain that RHO will bid 3H when it gets back around to him. Partner said he can stand whatever you bid with his takeout X (supposedly) and you have to show that you have spades as well.

However, if RHO is foolish enough to sit for it......then it becomes penalty. :-)

The CC refers more to auctions like (1C)-p-(1H)-X, or (1D)-p-(2C)-X, or in the case of support X auctions.

[kenberg]

bid_em_up, on Sep 21 2006, 05:16 PM, said:

kenberg, on Sep 21 2006, 02:42 PM, said:

Penalty.

Penalty is my strongly held opinion, and seems to be the clear choice. A question, however.

I watched some of the just concluded Buffett (Warren not Jimmy) Cup, USA vs Europe. Apparently the rules stipulate that the entire USA plays the USA card, and all Europeans play the European card. So I downloaded the USA card. Under doubles, one line says "All low level doubles NOT penalty". I have heard this slogan before. Should I assume that USA would have played this as take-out, or should I be taking "all" with Jimmy Buffett's shaker of salt . I assume 2S qualifies as low level.

Ken

While it is a "low-level" penalty-oriented double......that is not what the CC means. The X in this case, is not so much an attempt to defend 2S x'd (although you would be happy to do so) so much as it is simply psyche exposing, since you can be almost 100% certain that RHO will bid 3H when it gets back around to him. Partner said he can stand whatever you bid with his takeout X (supposedly) and you have to show that you have spades as well.

However, if RHO is foolish enough to sit for it......then it becomes penalty. :-)

The CC refers more to auctions like (1C)-p-(1H)-X, or (1D)-p-(2C)-X, or in the case of support X auctions.

Well, that's what I think also. Imo, it really is necessary to decide in some way which doubles are which. Many cases are not self-evident. Saying "all low level doubles are NOT penalty", and meaning "except for the ones that are" doesn't really clarify matters.

[SoTired]

penalty

"Responsive Dbls" are only when Responder raises opener. Hence the name, Responsive Dbl. 2H X 3H X, 1C 1S 2C X, etc. Not when responder bids a new suit.

There is another special type of dbl called the "Snapdragon dbl." Those occur when 3 suits have been bid and 4th seat dbls.

2H X 2S X is a STANDARD part of t/o dbls. It shows 4+ spades and is used to reveal a common psyche.

Many play that 2H X 2S X = 4♠ and 2H X 2S 3S = 5♠. This takes advantage of this psyche.

[Free]

it's been said before: penalty

[mikestar]

If it isn't penalty, they will steal you blind.