[sceptic]

West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 1♣    2♣    Pass  2♥
 3♣    3♥    Pass  3♠
 Pass  Pass  4♦    Pass
 Pass  Pass  [/FONT]

What sort of hand would east have?

What sort of hand would east expect west to have?

would you realistically have bid 4 diamonds with expectations to make ?

[bid_em_up]

Another question first. Can 3♠ really be passed??

Why would South bid it unless he expected to play 4♥?

East is probably something along the lines of:

2-2-7-2 or 3-2-7-1 (hard to make a judgement on this without seeing openers hand) with fairly good diamonds.

Even so, I dont think 4♦ rates to be a good call as it give South a chance to correct to 4♥ now......unless East intends to double 4♥.

[kenrexford]

Shaking. Both hands.

The hand must be shaking by East because East is obviously severely drunk or on some very heavy drugs.

West's hand is shaking out of sheer panic.

[hrothgar]

None of this makes any sense...

South bid a non-forcing 2♥, then advanced 3♠ over 3♥

East passed over North's two suited overcall... Most strong partnerships play some variant of unusual over unusual, so East had plenty of opportunity to show a competitive hand with Diamonds... Then, for whatever reason, he decided to balance after North passed what was probably intended as a forcing bid.

Given how far removed any of this is from reality, I'm hesitant to try to predict anything.

If forced to speculate, I think that 4♦ is a conventional club raise suggesting a lead versus a 5M sac. East has a hand that re-valued after the opps showed a spade fit...

♠
♥xxxx
♦AQTxx
♣Qxxx

[mikeh]

I agree that the auction is weird.

However, trying the best I can, I think that S took the 3♥ call as invitational ( a big michael's hand) and was accepting the game invite, and was showing equal majors, having bid the cheaper major first, and catering to N being 6=5 in the majors.

Of course, this doesn't systemically explain N's pass of 3♠, but this can be explained (not excused) by assuming that N meant 3♥ only as competitive, with no interest in game opposite a 2♥ advance.

Now, as to the 4♦ call, this is as werid as it gets, but I would posit maybe QJxxxxxx in ♦ with a poor hand: say an 8221 shape.... too weak to introduce ♦ earlier, yet with enough length as to make it unlikely that 4♦ would get hurt.

But the truth is, that this is an aucton that seems highly unlikely to occur with competent players in all 4 seats.... and guessing on this type of auction is rarely going to advance anyone's understanding of the game.

[kenrexford]

OK, now this is fun. Guess what is happening.

2♣ is not alerted. Thus, we cannot be certain that this is Michaels. Perhaps it shows spades and diamonds? This would make 2♥ possibly "natural," meaning either a suit OR a lead-director (will correct). 3♥, then, raises hearts, in case it was real, with tolerance for the higher level if a correction occurs. 3♠, then, corrected. Something like this.

3♦, then, appears to be a lead-suggesting cue, as suggested. This seems odd, as it forces 5♣. However, if 3♠ was to play, expecting to make, then 5♠ might be a good sacrifice against 5♣. Perhaps Responder has a void in spades, heart length with an honor holding not right for a double, and club support, with some lead-acceptance value in diamonds (AQ?).

Naw! I'm back to the bong theory.

[kenberg]

I agree that it's weird. One point: If I hold equal length in the majors, partner bids Michaels, and I can imagine bidding twice, I start with spades. For example, if over 2S opener rebids his clubs and it is passed back to me, then I bid hearts and partner chooses at the three level. Of course if I am, say, 2-2 in the majors I'll start with the hearts and hope I am not doubled.

It seems to me this is the way it should be played, also over 1C-X-pass. Holding 4-4, bid spades. It's a different situation than 1C(pard)-pass-? Here you can bid your 4 hearts, expecting partner to bid his four spades. But after 1C-2C-pass or 1C-X-pass, if you want to get both suits into play, spades first is the better way.

[P_Marlowe]

4D does not exist.
It is not even possible, that East holds a weak
hand with diamonds, since such a hand would
make a neg. Dbl.

3S does not exist, one can argue, that North
showed a strong hand, but in this case 3S is
useless,South should simplay bid 4H and be
done with it.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Blofeld]

Weird auction, but I agree with Mike as to the meaning of 4♦.

[barmar]

P_Marlowe, on Sep 14 2006, 06:14 PM, said:

4D does not exist.
It is not even possible, that East holds a weak
hand with diamonds, since such a hand would
make a neg. Dbl.

When did East have an opportunity to make a negative double? After 1♣ (2♣), a double is usually intended as interest in penalizing one of the opponent's suits.

[whereagles]

4♦ is natural. Why pard didn't bid diamonds before is beyond me, but hardly surprising. Some people have their own theories about when to bid/pass and this seems to be one such case where someone, for whatever reason, decided to take action only at the last minute.

[mike777]

You might have bid 2D over 2clubs?

[kenrexford]

As strange as this ended up, I can see the justification for a 4♦ call. Prior to this point, you are afraid that the opponents might bid 4♥ and make it. Now, because of strange opposition bidding, you almost are afraid that the opponents did not bid 4♥. It looks like 4♥ or 4♠ should probably be the par result, and probably down one. 4♦ seems to have play for a better plus than the one-trick set against the major game, and it is certainly better than -140.

The opposition bidding is bizarre, of course. This leads to a strange problem. Should a partnership be able to field a "weird bid" from partner in the context of weird bidding from the opposition? Perhaps so.

I understand not bidding diamonds earlier -- you are not all that interested in forcing a five-level decision. Perhaps the contract will die at 3♥, with -170 not a bad result. Bidding diamonds might tell the opps about the value of their stiff. help place cards, and keep partner from leading what might be most effective -- a club.

[SoTired]

I can understand some logic to 4D. However, it has 2 major flaws: 1) It confuses partner, and 2) It is masterminding. It is masterminding because you don't know opener has diam support and you don't know that the opps or you did not just miss game.

If you bid a non-forcing 2D earlier and then pass 3H, partner would know exactly what you have and could better make the final decision.

[Free]

I was sitting at the other side of the table and wondered if 5♦ would make a chance. Since opps didn't support ♠ early, I could figure out he had 4♠s, probably 6♦ and no support for my ♣s (otherwise he would've bid ♦ a lot sooner), which leaves us with almost exact distribution without relays! But since sceptic didn't bid immediatly, I thought 5♦ would go down 1 because of 3 top tricks in the Majors. Since we don't play very much, I can understand not bidding 2♦ immediatly (because this might be considered a lot weaker or stronger), and later on 4-level without knowing my ♠ shortness is dangerous. When they stop at 3♠ however, it gets easier.

Opponents' bidding is ridiculous ofcourse, first they want to play in 2♥, and later they signoff in 3♠ while this should be some kind of cuebid and not natural.

Bottom line: the message got accross m8

[whereagles]

SoTired, on Sep 17 2006, 10:19 PM, said:

It is masterminding because you don't know opener has diam support and you don't know that the opps or you did not just miss game.

They might have missed game, yes. But it's a virtual certainty your side has a fit. Heck, oops even seem to have a double fit (which makes your fit 100% certain).