[AdiBichea]

You are S

Scoring: MP

---

The bid:
1♦-p-1♠-p
2♦-p- ?

your bid is ...?

[boris3161]

Your partner is presumably showing a weak hand with 5+ diamonds. You have a weak hand with some support for diamonds. It looks like a good pass to me. You probably have about 20 - 22 points between you and 2 diamonds may or may not make - going any higher doesn't look like a good idea.

[whereagles]

Hum.. looks like pard has 4♥-5♦ and is close to a reverse bid. If you bid something now, he won't stop before game, and the only game that might be on is 4♠. But 4♠ requires pard to have a 3451 shape, in which case your ♣K is waste.

Pass.

[hrothgar]

3♦ seems about right...

Should make, and its unclear if you want to defend 2♥

[SoTired]

Pass - unless you have an agreement that 3D is preemptive and not invitational. Remember this is BIL forum. If opener bids 3N over 3D you will be forced to bid 4D. And NOW East may find a double.

If you bid 3D with KJxxx - xxx Kxxxx, what do you bid over 2D with Kxxxx xx AQxx Qx?

[inquiry]

I agree with richard and bid 3♦, but for sm additional reason. He wants to avoid defending 2♥ (reasonable, they do have at least 9 hearts and a fair amount of the hcp). I also bid 3♦ because as hard as it is to believe I have not yet given up on game on this hand.


While it is typical to strive to play in a major at MP, I hope to make at least two extra tricks in diamonds (heart ruffs) so I don't mind missing 2S to play 3D, if partner gives a delayed spade raise, we will go to 4S. If partner jumps to game, we will play 5D.

[Blofeld]

3♦, for much the same reasons as Ben.

[mike777]

Tough problem for me. Pard will expect much more for my 3D raise.

I pass and will bid 3d over a 2H balance. I just hope they do not bid and make 3H.

It does seem that the opp should have been able to bid hearts by now?

[david_c]

Pass. I can always compete later if need be. No way am I inviting game on this hand.

[inquiry]

Just a note is passing (pun intented). The passers are clearly not followers of ZAR for sure.

South has
7 hcp
2 controls pts
15 distributional points
3 fit points for the void and 3 card support
for a total of...... 27 ZAR points.

Opener will have from 26 to about 30 ZAR poiints. If he has 29 or 30, you are 57 ZARs, which is suitable for game in minor. So while this is not a great hand (and 27 ZARS probably over-evaluates it due to heart wastage in partners hand), it isn't all that bad a hand.

[whereagles]

Of course the hand is good. Just that the likelyhood of pard overbidding if we bid 3♦ is huge and 5♦ rates to be too high.

[david_c]

Agree with whereagles. 3♦ is a "real" invite, not just some mild constructive effort. And on a hand with no aces, 5♦ is such a long way away I can't believe you'd even consider it as a contract.

[HeartA]

I voted for 3D.

[mike777]

Here is an email response from one partner I found interesting.

"....the problem with passing 2D is you let the opps into the auction too easily......

Where is the heart suit?....the opponents must have half the deck and at least 9 hearts, probably more....
They likely aren't going to let us play in 2 diamonds.

I bid 2 spades partially to block out 2 hearts.....i guess raising to 3D might be worth a shot.
but i'm a bit light for that and i want partner to lead spades, not diamonds on defense...."

[inquiry]

What are some reasonable hands for partner? We will assume he is not minimum, simply because if he had only 13 points or less, someone would have bid hearts or doubled in here. So we peg him for 14 to bad 17 points. Does that sound like most likely?

Here are some example hands (set your own paramaters and come up with your own hands, I am not saying you will often get to game, just that game is not so far out of reach as to be unthinkable, and yes, even slam might be found)....

AQx xxxx AKJxx x 4♠. (my partners will not hold this hand, as they rasie spades),
Qx xxx AKQxxx Ax 5♦
x AT9 QTxxxx Axx 3♦
AQ KQJ KJT98x xx 4♦ *may make overtrick, may go down
Q AKxx AJT972 Ax 4♦, hope to make
Q Q985 AKJ9xxx Q 5♦, good chances
x AJx AKQJxx xxx 4♦ hope to make, probably too high
-- Qxxx AKJxxx AJx 5/6 ♦, game great, slam not horrible.
Ax T987 AKJxxx A 5/6 ♦, game great, slam good
Axx Axx AKTxxx x 4♠/5♦ = game great (my partner not have this hand)
xx Axx AKxxxx Ax 4♦ - hope not too high
xx Kxx AKxxxx AJ 4♦
Ax KJxx AQJT9x J 4/5♦ = maybe too high
A Kxxx ATxxxx Ax = takes trump lead to stop 5♦, 4/5 ♦
A AQJ Axxxxx xxx = 4♦, disaster hand, heart wastage, poor D. make if CA onside
954 K987 AKJT9 A = 4♦, probably to high
x AQJx AKxxx Jxx = 3/4♦
x Qxxx AKxxx AQT 5♦ ok on even d split
Qx Jxxx AQJxx AJ 3♦

You can deal your own. BTW, if your partner will
A) tend to raise to 2♠ with 3 card support and side shortness,
tend to rebid 2♣ when holding a weakish minor two suiter
c) rebid 1NT with 14 or so points and heart/club cards

To rebid 2♠ here on this five card suit is tantamount to suicide. By the time you stick the expected five/six diamonds and three/four hearts in partners hand, he has a singleton or doubleton spade most of the time. My rating of the bids are:

3D = 100 (ok I am bias)
Pass = 70
2S = 30
3C = 0
others = 0

[awm]

I'd pass on this hand. While some perfect hands for partner make game cold, you're much more likely to get too high by raising than to find one of these games on. To take Ben's example hands:

AQx xxxx AKJxx x is a 2♠ raise, so partner won't have this hand
Qx xxx AKQxxx Ax is a 3♦ rebid with 15 hcp and an excellent suit
x AT9 QTxxxx Axx would be nice to play in 2♦ rather than 3♦
AQ KQJ KJT98x xx is a 3♦ rebid with 16 hcp and a good suit
Q AKxx AJT972 Ax is a 2♥ reverse with 18 hcp
Q Q985 AKJ9xxx Q is kind of a perfecto with both stiff queens
x AJx AKQJxx xxx is a 3♦ rebid with six solid and 15 hcp working
-- Qxxx AKJxxx AJx is 2♥ or 3♦ with 15 hcp and a good suit
Ax T987 AKJxxx A is again, 16 hcp and a good suit, worth 2♥ or 3♦
Axx Axx AKTxxx x is a 2♠ raise once again
xx Axx AKxxxx Ax is 15 hcp, aces, and a decent suit, again 3♦
xx Kxx AKxxxx AJ produces no game, happy to play in 2♦
Ax KJxx AQJT9x J is a 2♥ or 3♦ rebid with 15-16 high and a good suit
A Kxxx ATxxxx Ax is super-max (okay not 3♦ on this one) and game down on ♦ lead
A AQJ Axxxxx xxx is bad for a raise as partner will not pass 3♦ with 15 hcp
954 K987 AKJT9 A is a 2♠ raise anyway
x AQJx AKxxx Jxx and again partner will not pass 3♦ and no game is good
x Qxxx AKxxx AQT offers chances on a 3-2 ♦ break but game still not great
Qx Jxxx AQJxx AJ is again not a pass of 3♦ (but might be a 1nt opening)

The problem with Ben's examples is that they seem weighted towards hands where opener has 15-16 hcp. My general feeling is that:

(1) A 2♦ rebid is normally in the 11-14 range. While 15-16 hcp is possible, I would tend to jump with a good six-card diamond suit or rebid 2♥ on a 4-6 pattern, so these hands inevitably have either only five diamonds or poor suit quality. Most of the hands in Ben's examples where game is good are not 2♦ rebids in my book.

(2) Partner will not typically pass 3♦ with 14-15 hcp. This means a number of Ben's examples will produce bad game or 4♦ contracts when 3♦ is the last playable spot.

(3) Hands where opener has 11-14 high should be more prevalent: I am not sure what parameters were used to generate Ben's hands but 17 of 19 examples had fifteen high or more even though he likes to open light with a six-card suit! This seems unrealistic, and there are many examples where 3♦ is simply too high opposite some 11 count (especially if 2♦ is the normal rebid with 1453 shape and minimum opening values). In fact I would think that if partner is 1453 then there are many hands where opponents will not be in the auction regardless of values (basically any time that opener's LHO doesn't have five good hearts).

(4) Raising will occasionally get you too high when partner is minimum and 2♦ is the last making spot. Looking at the hands where partner has 14-16 points and would accept the invite, it seems like game is bad on more of them than game is good, especially once we discount the fairly obvious 3♦ rebids (yes six diamonds to the AKJ and 15-16 hcp should be a 3♦ rebid).

[inquiry]

i ripped off hands from bridgebrowser with paramaters:

1) partner had 5-7 diamonds
2) partner had 3-4 hearts
3) partner opened 1D and rebid 2D
4) partner did not have either black king or the jack of spades

I am not sure, but I seriously doubt partner has only 11 hcp. Why? The opponents have (reasonably) at least 9 hearts between them, and would have 22 hcp, plus only 4 diamonds or less on average. Surely they would be in the bidding. One could use the same argument for why partner doesn't have as few as 12 or 13 points. That was my point. It is reasonable to expect partner to have 14 plus. Maybe that give the opponents too much credit, but I think not. And should partner have the weak hand, raising to 3♦ will make it harder for them to play 2♥ just as Richard stated.

Anyway, this is the premise as to why I anticipate partner to have, on this auction and this specific holding, more than a minimum. Usually when I anticipate like this, I am close. Not always, of course. But I would say the odds of partner having 14+ is much better than him having 11-13. He will also be unbalanced with a short club or short spade (my partners will typically have short spade, as I encourage three card raises). And the longer parnters diamonds are, the stronger his hand in general will be (black queens are good for us), since they stayed out with even more shortness in diamonds.

[mike777]

If partner has 14+ then I assume partner must also have a stiff or a void. No 1NT opening bid. If partner has 14+ and a stiff or void we must also assume partner has less than a full reverse or the values for a jump to 3D bid. Partner has also not raised to 2s or rebid 2clubs thus restricting her hand further.

Any 14+ hcp hand that partner has given the above parameters will force partner to game if we bid 3D. I just hope we make it. I could see partner bidding game with some semibalanced/one suited 13 hcp hands over a 3D raise.

Ya, it seems wierd partner may have some 9-13 hcp hand and the opp are not bidding but that seems more and more possible for me.

[P_Marlowe]

3D, wtp?

A courtesy raise, an inv. raise,
whatever you think, I have it.

Depending on your partnership style
partner may even have 3 spades.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[zasanya]

inquiry, on Sep 7 2006, 02:21 PM, said:

What are some reasonable hands for partner? We will assume he is not minimum, simply because if he had only 13 points or less, someone would have bid hearts or doubled in here. So we peg him for 14 to bad 17 points.

May be I am opening a new can of worms but should we base our bidding on what ops did or didnt?If playing against Meckwell or opponent I know very well perhaps I can ,otherwise it may not be a good idea.
Anyone for passing now and then bidding 2♠ or 3 ♣ if and when ops bid 2♥?