[jdeegan]

Scoring: MP

P-P-1♥-2♣
???

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Playing SAYC with no frills. What to bid? Partner is a sound player with solid habits. Any strong feelings?

[Mr. Dodgy]

easy cue-bid limit raise for me, is that a 'frill'?

[EricK]

Do we know partner's tendencies for 3rd hand openers? Could he be balanced with only 4♥ for instance?

[whereagles]

Dbl, followed by 3♥. That will show my hand with 4 digits precision

[badderzboy]

easy neg dbl wtp

This is MPs so I might want to play in a 4-4 Spade fit?

Steve

[Mr. Dodgy]

whereagles, on Sep 10 2006, 04:59 AM, said:

Dbl, followed by 3♥. That will show my hand with 4 digits precision

good point

[pbleighton]

"Dbl, followed by 3♥. That will show my hand with 4 digits precision"

A nice bbid, except if righty bids 4C and pd doesn't know about your heart support.

Because of this, 3C for me.

Peter

[ewj]

I like double

[kenrexford]

I hate this type of situation, because I never feel comfortable with my thinking here. However, I voted for 2♥ for several reasons.

1. I keep reading and hearing that good partnership bidding means setting a plausible strain first. It makes life easier for partner if he knows that I have hearts with him. If we have a superior fit in spades, let that work itself out later. This is better than X-3♣-? or even 4♣, when a spade fit is not there.

2. I do not want to hang partner when he has a light opening, featuring Kx of clubs or such for his values.

3. If partner has the "right" hand, where game makes but he will not move over 2♥, the opponents usually compete to 3♣, and 3♦ by either of us is effective. Plus, after 3♦ by one of us, the other can bid 3♠.

4. LHO may well bid 2♠ after 2♥, a second way to "win."

I understand that I have a great dummy. I probably have two spade cards, two diamonds cards, and a club shortness value. But, I dislike my meager hearts, the doubleton versus stiff in clubs, and the high risk that partner has club cards in jeopardy when he also is a "tweener." I would much rather bid more aggressively if my general approach was not to open almost all 11-counts with a five-card major.

[inquiry]

This is matchpoints, not imps. At imps and being vulnerable, I would make a game try (try not to miss games vul at imps). If Imps, I would bid 3♣'s.

This is matchpoints. Ignore the vulnerabilty as it relates to bidding game or not. Here, I think a simple 2♥ call is best.

• I have the wrong number of clubs
  
• partner opened 3rd seat,
  
• if partner can't make a game try, LOTT suggest 2♥ might be enough,
  
• On all hands where game is not going to be bid, 2♥ is safer than 3♥
  
• I think it was bergen who said that when in doubt make the cheapest bid. Since a limit raise of a major is usually 4 cards and 10-12 pts, and this one has only 3 trumps and 10 points (i dont coutn doubleton with three trumps), choose the most economical bid is reasonable (which suggest btw that double would be right). But I like support with support.

I maybe the only 2♥ bidder, but that is my choice. I also like the negative double, however, with three hearts, I want to support hearts now. The good news about supporting with support here is that if we defend, I will be on lead, not partner, so the heart raise will not encourage a bad lead from parnter.

[EricK]

The trouble with 2♥ is that firstly partner might not have 5♥, so you may not wish to support immediately; and secondly, partner is put into a difficult position because he doesn't know how much you are accounting for the possibility that he is weak. You will want to support on much weaker hands than this to avoid selling out to 2♣, so partner won't be too keen to make a game try in case you are at the weaker end of the spectrum.

It is for these reasons that I have never been totally convinced of the logic of opening very weak in third seat - but that is an argument for a different thread.

[mike777]

Very tough problem.

2H

3c second choice

neg x third choice and then 3h, third choice.

[awm]

Double for me. This has a number of advantages:

(1) We can find a superior 4-4 spade fit if it exists.
(2) Gives partner the chance to convert with four good clubs (this is likely right, especially since game won't often make when partner has four good clubs).
(3) Double followed by bidding hearts should show the values and deny the fourth heart, and may let us out at the two level.
(4) We can find a superior 5-4 diamond fit if we're in the slam zone (hey sometimes partner has extras).

Perhaps double leaves us awkwardly placed if LHO makes a really big club raise (over 3♣ we're okay, it's when he bids 4♣ or more). But this is not all that likely, and partner will often hold short clubs on such an auction and "save us" by bidding something.

[SoTired]

dbl for me, but 2H could work better. Some open 1H in 3rd/4th seat with only 4. Sometimes with a major 4-4 they open 1H. So I don't want to commit to hearts without checking out the spades.

Even if my partner always has 5h here, 3C would be my 3rd choice because weak 3-card support, weak dblton club, no aces, flat hand. If partner can't move over 2H, we probably don't have game. Especially at MP.

[P_Marlowe]

3C, showing a inv. raise,
playing MP 2H is certainly
a valid option and may even
be better, but I bid the same
playing MP and IMP's, so I will
slightly overbid to reach game.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdeegan]

EricK, on Sep 10 2006, 02:31 AM, said:

Do we know partner's tendencies for 3rd hand openers? Could he be balanced with only 4♥ for instance?

This was a critical issue for me at the table at the time. For the sake of argument, let's say that partner is a good player who is not operating because given the state of the match that would have been uncalled for. So, an animalistic third seat opener on a four-bagger is out because of the vulnerability.

Anyway, I took the underbid of two hearts. Partner made a game try, and the rest was easy. Upon reflection and given what I learned from the forum's commentators, I now think that a negative double is the best call. After all, I am 4-4 in the unbid suits and have the right high card strength. The heart support is a bonus.

After the double, my next bid looks easy, raise parner's bid one level and pass or compete to 3 hearts over the opponents' three club call.