[inquiry]

Hi,

I have played in the BBO for a VERY long time indeed. This poll is to find out what current practice is on booting players in a situation like the one I will describe below.

Last night I had cause to boot a player who falls into an unusual category. He wasn't rude perse, the game I was in was modest skill level at best, so he was probably not outclassed (he did label himself as "world class" but this had to be a huge joke). His bidding was very suspect, but whose isn't. The problem was after a totally moronic first board, where he screwed up, he made silly commentss, then during the play of a doubled slam contract by his partner where he had overbid, he "analyzed" the hands, gave lines of play that would "bring the slam home". Said it was cold, add lol's, and the like.

Of course, that would be grounds from bannishment IMHO, but to add insult to injury, his analysis was totally flawed. He suggested it was a triple squeeze hand, which it wasn't. There were lots of flaws, first the threat suits were not all in one defense hand, second none of their three threat suits had an entry in its own suit (the communication was totally dead... doubleton AK opposite Qxxx, Singleton K opposite Axxx, and KJxx opposite Txx with AQ behind the KJ. In addition, the count wasn't correct.

At the time, his partner asked me to boot him, the kibitizer were privately sending me messages about what a jerk he was, and my partner was obviously getting steamed.

So, I booted the fellow. First I thanked him, in private, for playing. Explained that his comments were making others at the table uncomfortable, and told him that at the end of the hand i would have to boot him by popular request (my desire was also to boot him, as he was disrupting and otherwise enjoyable game).

How do you handle this situation? This is only the second boot for reasons other than a stuck player I have used.

Ben

[Free]

I'm not used to boot players, but if I do, I give them a warning first. If they screw up again, they're gone... But if the entire room including kibitzers is asking to boot him, I'll just boot him and give the reason.

Free

[bglover]

Ah.... back to this old saw.

At the risk of repeating myself, I believe that there are APPROPRIATE reasons for the occasional boot. These reasons should be limited in number or else you invite wholesale abuse. However, as we all know, under current BBO policy booting for ANY reason is generally frowned upon.

It it not for me to say what those reasons should be; I have booted a few players for the same general reasons over the last 2 years but not nearly as many as I would have liked to boot. Reasons being those aforementioned rules.

At one point long ago, there was talk of giving the table the ability to "vote off" an offending player (for whatever reasons) and not risk the wrath of yellows. Why this was never instituted I am not privy to, but I thought that idea had much merit.

I still leave the table and ask non-offensive players to please join me at my new table... I will usually do this OPENLY to let the one bad apple know what I think of him, but I don't curse him out or whatever.. I just do it to send a clear message and then I blacklist the jerk.

An imperfect solution but the only one that doesn't vioate policy...

[inquiry]

Yes, I know the rule about booting player for bad bid or bad play. I would never and have never done this, even IF requested by his partner.

The boot action I took was associated with bad behavior, the bad bidding and play was just a side-highlight. The rules are somewhat fuzzy on the area of booting in this area. So I was wondering if such action was a bootable offense... in my mind I made it such, but perhaps I was wrong.

I kept the chat private to avoid any public embarrashment, and in an effort to have the player in question end the game without much fanfare. This didn't work, as he was in no hurry to leave the table. So I apologized and booted him anyway, without any public comment to the table (we did have a few kibitizers).

The in private chat is important. I see no reason to tell a player publically that you are going to boot him. This goes against my feeling that players should not be humilated or held out to public flogging (see other post). Interesting, the private chat became quite amusing, and I almost wish much of it went public. This player first challenged my statement that the slam can not be made and wanted to bet me on that (Deep Finessee easily confirms there is no way to make it even after a less the less than optimal opening lead). Then, when challenged to prove his line of play, his response changed to challenge me to a money game...where I could bring my best partner and he would wipe me out, etc with a random partner. I declined to take his money, as no doubt anyone with such delusions needs all their money to seek professional councilling. :-)

Ben

[bglover]

Well the only time I have ever booted someone was for disrupting behavior of some sort... I have my own liberal rules for what is disrupting and this guy would have fallen into them (I was kibbing at the time of this occurrence and wondered how long the others would stand for this guy for what thats worth).

People who claim to be experts and then exhibit no expert abilities (while berating partners for doing nothing wrong) are the ones that feel my wrath. If someone ever does that.... I leave the table, ask the other 2 nice people to follow me and tell the jerk off publically (I do this for two reasons... 1. I don't want this person to ever sit at my table and 2. this is exactly the sort of boorish behavior that deserves boorishness in return and if I can embarass this person in the same way he humiliated his partner then he is getting just desserts). FWIW I have only done this perhaps 3 or 4 times in two years... It is not a daily occurrence by any stretch.

The incident at Ben's table falls into this category in my opinion. This person publicly humiliated his partner when she had done nothing egregious and his RIDICULOUS bidding had created the predicament they were in. I do my best to discourage these people from playing with me in the future but fortuneately these are rare occurrences.

[ack_hh]

Quote

I still leave the table and ask non-offensive players to please join me at my new table... I will usually do this OPENLY to let the one bad apple know what I think of him, but I don't curse him out or whatever.. I just do it to send a clear message and then I blacklist the jerk.

The best solution IMHO - seconded.

Andreas

[uday]

I think it is ok to boot players who are being rude. Of course, one has to be careful exercising this boot power, since the perp may think he is being funny, not rude, for instance, or may sound brusque because of an issue with the language.

Of course, any player rude enough to be booted should be reported as well, to abuse@bridgebase.com or via a bbo msg to yours truly

[Rain]

I think its ok to boot players if you have a valid reason, and ask them nicely first to leave as they are not a good fit. Being unpleasant is a valid reason in my opinion.

To dredge up the BBO rules/guidelines of the site, although its not for exactly the same incident :

"It is considered a courtesy to ask the other players at a table if it is ok for you to sit down before you take a seat. If, after sitting down without asking, you are asked to leave the table, you should do so immediately without making any rude comments. "

So, anyway, extrapolating it, if 3 players agree that 1 other is not nice/doesn't fit in, can always ask him to leave. Alternatively the 3 of you can leave and start up your own table of course. Just inform the other players first that you are going

Rain

[bhugi]

table host cannot boot a player for bad bids or plays, but allow host to do so for those rude.

If a player is rude, not preserving faces to others, he can't request others to preserve his face too. Host can kindly ask him to leave. Explain to him and most will leave themselves. If he don't know what is "shame" but insist to stay, I think boot him will do not harm anything more, because he don't know that word.

[mr1303]

I've just been playing in a board where an attempted sac against a cold 6H went 5 off for -1100. If it had gone 4 off, which it nearly did, it would have been very close to a top.

One of the opponents said that it was bad judgement (which it was) and my bidding was stupid (which it wasn't and I considered extremely rude), and I was very close to booting for this. Would this have been justified?

[uday]

I think it is ok to boot someone for being rude.

We see a lot of abuse of the Boot ( people being booted because their play is not up to par, or because they dont play systems the host likes).

So best to be sure that a neutral party would also agree that the person was being rude

[hallway]

It seems to me that people could save themselves a lot of 'grief' simply by accepting the responsibility of being the Host
a. When they set up the table
b. When they become the host by default when the table initiator leaves.

We have the Table Description facility - we should USE IT !!

Spell out the requirements for the table:
any system or a particular system
chat or no chat
this language or that language

whatever it is that makes bridge enjoyable for the Host.

Then quite simply when a new person sits ask them ' have you read the Table Description ? "
IF they reply "What ??" <duh>
tell them to Click on Table (black button rhs of screen)
hold cursor over Host name - and read it !!

Now they have 3 options -
1. Leave probably (hopefully) with a 'sry not my style'
2. Stay probably (hopefully) with a 'great , how's my profile for you?'
3. Stay anyway

The point is that at any time during the course of play if there is any form of dissent the Host can simply refer the dissident to the Table Description . If they stay and persist in their unacceptable behaviour then they are simply asking to be to be asked to leave and/or Booted .

When becoming the Host of a table by default by clicking on the Table Button the description can be modified if need be.

Be a responsible Host.

[Trpltrbl]

I run my tourneys as Zero Tolerance and put that down so everybody that enters my tourney knows about it, and for the few that can't read, I also say it at beginning of tourney. And I will boot them, we r all trying to have good time playing this game and we don't need some selfcentered "worldclass" beginner putting people down to make him/herself feel better.

Mike

[bearmum]

Rain, on Dec 3 2003, 08:49 AM, said:

I think its ok to boot players if you have a valid reason, and ask them nicely first to leave as they are not a good fit. Being unpleasant is a valid reason in my opinion.

To dredge up the BBO rules/guidelines of the site, although its not for exactly the same incident :

"It is considered a courtesy to ask the other players at a table if it is ok for you to sit down before you take a seat. If, after sitting down without asking, you are asked to leave the table, you should do so immediately without making any rude comments. "

So, anyway, extrapolating it, if 3 players agree that 1 other is not nice/doesn't fit in, can always ask him to leave. Alternatively the 3 of you can leave and start up your own table of course. Just inform the other players first that you are going

Rain

I agree you SHOULD be able to ask if it's OK to sit BUT I have found that if you don't just HOP in you won't get a seat ----- there is barely enough time to glance at your prospective partner's profile

[luke warm]

inquiry, on Dec 2 2003, 07:34 PM, said:

Yes, I know the rule about booting player for bad bid or bad play. I would never and have never done this, even IF requested by his partner.  ~~snip~~
Ben

i've played so bad as table host that i've been tempted to boot myself