[Al_U_Card]

Scoring: IMP

4♠ dbl pass ???

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What do you do, what should pard have and where do you hope to end up?

[Gerben42]

4NT - trying to find out which minor partner prefers. I follow that up with 5♠ as a grand slam try.

[inquiry]

Gerben42, on Sep 7 2006, 02:59 PM, said:

4NT - trying to find out which minor partner prefers. I follow that up with 5♠ as a grand slam try.

Agree...

[Gpm_bg]

I confirm same thought like Gerben42. very tempthing card, but with that strenght i'm wondering what partner hold to dbl, so 5♠ could be also grand bid invite directly without 4nt first. I hope that dbl is not funny dbl

[awm]

Partner's expected to have a strong hand, probably close to balanced. He could certainly have something wasted in spades, but consider something like:

KQx
KJx
Axx
Qxxx

This is pretty minimum for the double and includes a lot of wasted spade cards, but yet 7♣ is quite good.

Anyways, I agree with 4NT followed by 5♠ as a grand slam try.

[P_Marlowe]

4NT, the dbl shows a strong hand
with conv. values.

I will raise his minor bid to 6.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[hatchett]

Quote

but yet 7♣ is quite good.

Only quite good? You obviously have very high standards for your grands!

[hatchett]

How you continue depends on how you play the double. I prefer to play the double as more take-out orientated rather than doubling on any balanced 15 count. Playing opposite myself I would bid 4NT and raise whichever minor partner bid to the 7 level. Partner's never going to be co-operating in any grand slam since he's fairly junky outside of ♠s.

[Gpm_bg]

If you expect your partner to gave reasonable double, the hand should be similar to something like that

♠Ax
♥KQxxxx
♦Ax
♣Qxx and to rest to his RHO to have KQ 8th♠ to make blockjump bid


but as i sow some players they distort the idea of major block with 4♠ or 4♥

so could be expected hadn with 7th♠ and why not 4th♥ even

[whereagles]

Another vote for 4NT followed by 5♠.

[FrancesHinden]

hatchett, on Sep 8 2006, 12:25 AM, said:

How you continue depends on how you play the double. I prefer to play the double as more take-out orientated rather than doubling on any balanced 15 count. Playing opposite myself I would bid 4NT and raise whichever minor partner bid to the 7 level. Partner's never going to be co-operating in any grand slam since he's fairly junky outside of ♠s.

So would I.

[Al_U_Card]

Here is the hand that doubled, I bid 5S (error) and over his 6H I went to seven clubs and got no correction to D.......I thank you for the info about the 4NT first as that would be clearer

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[bid_em_up]

Al_U_Card, on Sep 8 2006, 10:43 AM, said:

Here is the hand that doubled, bid 5S (error) and over his 6H I went to seven clubs and got no correction to D.......I thank you for the info about the 4NT first as that would be clearer

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This hand has absolutely no reason to double 4♠.

'Nuff said.

[P_Marlowe]

Al_U_Card, on Sep 8 2006, 10:43 AM, said:

Here is the hand that doubled, I bid 5S (error) and over his 6H  I went to seven clubs and got no correction to D.......I thank you for the info about the 4NT first as that would be clearer

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ K982 ♥ Q9763 ♦ AJ4 ♣ Q

Even looking at the hand, it is not clear,
what partner did intended bid, t/o or penalty,
most likely penalty.
This treatment is not unusual, altough one
should agree before hand.
And even for a penalty dbl the hand is rather
weak.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: The given hand is a good example, that one should try to
bid conservative in case one is playing with an unknown partner,
i.e. in the given auction: give up on the GS.
But I agree, that just bidding the SS is very chicken like.

[ewj]

I can't really see myself stopping in 6 here.

[P_Marlowe]

ewj, on Sep 9 2006, 07:02 AM, said:

I can't really see myself stopping in 6 here.

Did you ever asked yourself, why the "unlucky Expert"
looses more than the tech. more inferior "Mr. Smug"?

In his wonderful book "Why you loose at Bridge"
Simon wrote "he bid the hand in the same fashion as if he
was sitting opposite myself, but he was not".

Bidding with an unknown partner is different than bidding with
an known partner.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jdeegan]

Al_U_Card, on Sep 8 2006, 10:43 AM, said:

Here is the hand that doubled, I bid 5S (error) and over his 6H I went to seven clubs and got no correction to D.......I thank you for the info about the 4NT first as that would be clearer

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How can anyone result this hand? Partner's double is not bridge. He has two defensive tricks against 4♠. He has poor shape and too few high cards for a takeout double of one spade.

By the way, why would my 4NT bid be considered as a takeout for the minors? Not ace asking? Not D/I? Clearly, some agreement IS needed. Is 4NT asking for minors standard treatment in this auction these days? Tell me.

[mr1303]

4NT is two places to play, not necessarily the minors. The reason that it is this rather than Blackwood is because the hand types where you need to suggest a playable strain, but need partner's input are much more common than the hand types where you need to know how many aces partner has.

I don't know what D/I means, so I won't comment on that.

[Walddk]

mr1303, on Sep 11 2006, 12:47 PM, said:

I don't know what D/I means, so I won't comment on that.

D.I is an abbreviation used for Declarative-Interrogative. It refers to a 4NT bid employed as a general slam attempt.

This method was originally established as part of the Neapolitan system. The Blue Team Club was based upon a bidding system called Neapolitan, the origin of which remains unknown, but which was played successfully by many bridge players in Italy.

However, since 1965, Benito Garozzo has gradually revised the Neapolitan and renamed it the Blue Team Club system.

4NT is Blackwood if it is a jump bid or bid at the very first opportunity after a sudden jump to game by either partner. Otherwise 4NT promises 2 aces if bid by an unlimited hand by either partner, or 1 ace by either partner who has limited his holding.

The 4NT bid requests that partner shows an undisclosed feature, either a first round control, or a second round control, or even a key queen by bidding the suit, in which the feature is held. This feature-showing response does not indicate or promise additional values unless the bid exceeds the 5-level of the agreed trump suit.

For example, if the agreed trump suit is hearts and the D.I. response would be 5♠, then this sequence promises additional values. The responder may also rebid by jumping to the 6-level of the agreed trump suit, which denies any interest in a grand slam, or responder may rebid 5NT to communicate maximum values and interest in a grand slam.

After any normal 5-level response to 4NT, a subsequenty 5NT asks for additional features and promises one more ace than origianlly guaranteed.

The Declarative-Interrogative 4NT, in other bidding systems such as Blue Team Club and Kaplan-Sheinwold, requests additional information about held features rather than promising a specific number of aces or key cards.

In the Blue Team Club, whenever the Declarative-Interrogative 4NT is made after a series of feature-showing cuebids, then it becomes a slam try with the promise that all suits are covered and/or contain a first round control unless the player who bids 4NT bypasses a suit in which a control has not been shown.

All too complicated for me, but good luck if you want to try it out!

Roland

[jdeegan]

Walddk, on Sep 11 2006, 06:11 AM, said:

All too complicated for me, but good luck if you want to try it out!

Roland

Wow! Thanks for the lesson. All I remember about D/I is that it serves as a non-jump relay that conserves bidding space and says 'I am still interested in slam, speak to me!' In that context, I guess 4NT is 'like D/I' in this auction.