[ruotal]

Auctions :
N E S W
P P 1♥ X
?

North Hand : ♠ J7632 ♥ J1096 ♦ AJ9 ♣ 8

First question : Is it possible (or let's say use by players) to play Jordan ?

Second : if yes, is it better employ Drury or Jordan.

Thank you.

[pbleighton]

Possible, but much better to play Drury, as you can play at the two level if partner has opened light.

Peter

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

First for simplicity: Jordan.
Drury should be off after intervention,
why treat

Pass (Pass) - 1H -(x)
???

different than
1H -(x)- ???
(Pass)- 1H -(x)- ???

Second: With the given hand simply
bid 3H, preemptive raise with 4 trumps,
since the given hand is certainly not
invitational, even oppossite a full opener.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

Prefer Bromad over one major=x

1s=x
2s=3 piece less than constructive
2h=3 piece, constructive
xx=3 piece, lmt or better in support(xx doesn't promise support, you have to raise later.
all bids above 2s the same Bergen as if there was no double.

1h=x

2h=3 piece less than constructive
2d=3 piece, constructive
xx=3 piece, lmt or better in support(xx doesn't promise support, you have to raise later.
all bids above 2h the same Bergen as if there was no double.

[keylime]

I bid 1♠.

[pbleighton]

"First for simplicity: Jordan.
Drury should be off after intervention,
why treat

Pass (Pass) - 1H -(x)
???

different than
1H -(x)- ???
(Pass)- 1H -(x)- ???'"

Because the third hand opener may be light.

"Second: With the given hand simply
bid 3H, preemptive raise with 4 trumps,
since the given hand is certainly not
invitational, even oppossite a full opener."

Well, different evaluations for different folks

I count this as 11 in support: 7 hcp plus 3 for
the stiff plus 1 for a combination of the fourth
trump and the 10-9 of trumps.

3H is a significant underbid, IMO. I invite with
10 including distribution, myself.

Peter

[mike777]

This is what 3clubs Bergen was invented for
1h=x=3c around 7-10...8-11 support pts 4 trumps.
Will not respond 1s with this hand, poor spades and want to show my hand with one bid with Bergen 3clubs.

[keylime]

No one is wanting to claim the boss suit? What's wrong with 1♠ knowing that if pard has opened light you're not going to hang them....

[pbleighton]

"No one is wanting to claim the boss suit? What's wrong with 1♠ knowing that if pard has opened light you're not going to hang them.... "

Contrast 1H-1S-2C/2D/2H (you have no idea if pd opened light) with 1H-2C(did you open light pd)-x. After the first sequence, you can't stop in 2H, unless you are willing to not invite. After Drury, you can.

Peter

[neilkaz]

keylime, on Aug 27 2006, 06:29 PM, said:

No one is wanting to claim the boss suit? What's wrong with 1♠ knowing that if pard has opened light you're not going to hang them....

1♠ is totally off my radar here. I want the opps to stumble into ♠ if possible and almost certainly we have at least 9♥.

The question is whether the hand is good enough for a limit raise or not. I prefer, by a slight bit, to just bid 2H unless playing some gadget.

.. neilkaz ..

[mike777]

It seems to me all this drury or go slow stuff just lets the opp in the auction if we are both weak. I got junk and if partner has junk lets get to 3H fast through Bergen. If partner has a real hand 3clubs lets partner know we got a little something with 4 hearts.

Do you really expect to buy this hand in 2H with a 9 card fit and the opp to say nothing?

[HeartA]

I agree with Marlowe and would bid 3H. And as neilkaz said, I would hid my spades.

[hrothgar]

Comment 1: I've seen a fair amount of debate in expert circles regarding the utility of Bergen raises in non-competitive auctions following a first or second seat 1M opening. Realtively few top players recommend these methods in competive auctions or after third/fourth seat openings. Fit showing jumps are much more useful. Personally, I'd never want to use 3♣/3♦ as Bergen raises in this type of sequence.

Comment 2: I think this looks like a preemptive raise. I'm bidding 3♥ and shutting down their ability to find a minor suit fit. If they find a Spade fit, I'm going to be quite happy. If partner has a Spade void opposite my 5 small then all my "points" are working.

I briefly toyed with the idea of a 2NT bid, however, the hand really doesn't seem strong enough

[Winstonm]

I bid 2H.

This is a solid 2H bid but it is not a limit raise - more in line with a Bergen "mixed" raise than anything else.

This to me is the only time Bergen raises are valuable - when RHO has doubled.

[the hog]

I prefer the following structure over a X
1NT + = transfers; so here a 2D bid would be a good H raise and a 2H bid "just a bid".

[zasanya]

Does anyone violently disagree with 4♥?

[adhoc3]

The_Hog, on Aug 28 2006, 12:17 AM, said:

I prefer the following structure over a X
1NT + = transfers; so here a 2D bid would be a good H raise and a 2H bid "just a bid".

1MX full:

"The Basis: C/1MX
Cappelletti Over One of a Major Doubled (C/1MX) is a cute set of responses over an opponent's double. It is based on the assumption that you would usually rather play in 2M than in 1NT when the suit is 5-2. That frees up 1NT for a puppet to 2C, and 2-level bids below 2M are transfers. with the 6-9-point balanced hand with 2 of partner's suit, then, either you transfer into a 5-card side suit and then return to partner's major, or you bid the 1NT puppet and then partner's major. The immediate raise is a 3-card garbage raise, and the transfer into partner's suit is a 3-card constructive raise. With any 10+ HCP, you redouble."

see link here

[whereagles]

zasanya, on Aug 28 2006, 06:06 AM, said:

Does anyone violently disagree with 4♥?

Not really, but it's a bit of a shot, given pard has anything from 9 hcp and 4 hearts to 22 hcp and a 65, so...

[P_Marlowe]

pbleighton, on Aug 27 2006, 05:28 PM, said:

"First for simplicity: Jordan.
Drury should be off after intervention,
why treat
<snip>
...
<snip>
...
<snip>
Because the third hand opener may be light.
<snip>

Hi Peter,

I agree, that my suggestion is only
suboptimal, but than, I dont play a
lot, and like to keep things simple.

And I dont believe that the difference
between Jordan and Drury is that big,
since they wont let you play on the 2
level anyway.
... With the given hand you have a
chance, since you hold the spades.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Regarding the strength: 3H or inv.,
I think it may also depend on the vul.,
you have 9 losers, but know about a 5-4
fit, which gives you reason to upgrade,
i.e. you may treat it as inv., but I think
it is close.

[Chamaco]

IMO after opps interference, there is no real need for Drury.
In fact when responder has the value for a limit raise, :

- he can bid 2NT (4+ fit), without fear of being too high in a 9 card fit, even if opener is light
- with a limit 3 card raise, he can XX, or occasionally, with a really good sidesuit, make a fitshowing jump.

- for the rest of the structure, I agree with the 1NT+ transfer bids mentioned by Ron, including a direct 2M to show a bad raise, and a 1-under raise to show constructive raise.