[lowerline]

Playing 2/1, a second seat opening should be sound. Since I have 12hcp I expect the field to be in 4♥. Even if making a game invitation only with this hand shows superior hand evaluation skills, you are heading for a top or a bottom if you end up playing 3♥. If you are not in need for a top right now, force the bidding towards 4♥.

Steven

[the hog]

I would definitely force to game, light openers or not. 5 controls, 4 card support and a useful AJ combination in Ds make any game try far too conservative.

[mike777]

I do not see how so many force to game unless you play solid opening bids. I would expect to go down in 3H sometimes across from partner's junky 11 pt openers. Make that down in 2H so I hope our 3h bid is a sacrifice.

[EricK]

mike777, on Sep 1 2006, 06:21 PM, said:

I do not see how so many force to game unless you play solid opening bids. I would expect to go down in 3H sometimes across from partner's junky 11 pt openers. Make that down in 2H so I hope our 3h bid is a sacrifice.

So what is the minimum hand that opener would accept a game invitation on in your system?

[whereagles]

If you play feather-weight LIMITED openings, then I guess an invite is ok. Against any sort of unlimited openings, you should bid game because that's what makes statistically. Besides, if opener has a slammish hand, yours actually becomes pretty good.

[mike777]

EricK, on Sep 2 2006, 03:00 AM, said:

mike777, on Sep 1 2006, 06:21 PM, said:

I do not see how so many force to game unless you play solid opening bids. I would expect to go down in 3H sometimes across from partner's junky 11 pt openers. Make that down in 2H so I hope our 3h bid is a sacrifice.

So what is the minimum hand that opener would accept a game invitation on in your system?

Over an invite I would certainly bid game with any 6 ltc hand or any opener with a stiff or void. Since an inivte for me is around 12-13 support points any opener with 13 would be considered. I would expect to pass most openers with 7losers or more, 11-12 points and no stiff or void. Since these hand types are common, we pass alot. That is why I am surprised so many force to game.
Flat, minimum 13 point hands are the tough ones.


I do not play a strong club system.

[zasanya]

Playing in our local monthly pairs I would bid 4♥ because I know all the pairs sitting our way are going to bid 4 and me and my P always make 1 trick more than most of them.
Playing in a field composed of the posters from forum I would invite since a significant majority seem to suggest that and I expect to make 1 trick less than most of them.
Playing with unknowns I bid 4 because most unknowns would bid 4 and I expect........(Blush)
How is that for mp strategy?

[sceptic]

playing reverse bergen which I do

I would bid 3 clubs over this then sign off in 4 spades what ever my pard bid

I would not bid 1NT then 4 hearts as the bergen raise would show 4 cards and the 1NT call would only promise 3 cards (no idea if this info would be any use to me, but maybe an expert would gain from that knowledge LOL) especially if he is interested in slam IMHO

I expect if my pard has HCP of less than 11 as a light opener, it has other features about it that makes it a half decent opener, so I would not be scared of going to game

having said that

I would bid 1NT forcing with 2/1 and a pick up pard not having agreed any form of Bergen

[mike777]

Ok Wayne why play Reverse Bergen? That puts slam bidding before game bidding and Bergen did not invent or play Reverse Bergen for some reason?

[sceptic]

quite a few people play reverse bergen and I like it

and how does a 3 club bid mean slam try ? it just makes it easier or at a lower level to get to slam if you have the right sort of hand

and possibly he never played it because he forgot where he put his notes,

I actually dont quite get what you are saying here

[mike777]

If you reverse the meaning of 3clubs and 3Diamonds you have less room to investigate for game, more room for slam. That is putting slam before game.

I think Marty put a lot of thought into his Bergen raises and made his choices based on what was most important based on his experiences.

[sceptic]

ah yes I see what you mean. yes it does give more room for slam, but I am not sure about how it does give you less room for game and not sure that is really a disadvantage