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An Auction

Poll: Multiple Choice (25 member(s) have cast votes)

Multiple Choice

  1. 4144 GF (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 4144 Maximum for minimum opener (invitational) (4 votes [16.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.00%

  3. 4054 GF (7 votes [28.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.00%

  4. 4054 Maximum for min opener (11 votes [44.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.00%

  5. Something else (3 votes [12.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 15:04

Consulted some very good players so I think I know the answer to this one. Just thought I'd post it... first of a couple hands from a sectional around here.


1♦-1♥
1♠-1NT
3♣

What does opener have?

Is 3♦ by responder forcing or not?
Kevin Fay
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#2 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 15:06

Opener has a strong 17-18 4=0=5=4 or a 4=1=5=3.

It isn't forcing but responder won't pass very often.

3♦? By responder? No that isn't forcing.
"Phil" on BBO
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#3 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 15:08

Agree in principal, but I don't think opener can be 4153. With 4153 his last bid might have been 2NT.
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#4 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 15:44

ArtK78, on Jun 23 2008, 04:08 PM, said:

Agree in principal, but I don't think opener can be 4153. With 4153 his last bid might have been 2NT.

agreed
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#5 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-June-23, 15:54

4054 max, just under JS strength.
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#6 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-June-24, 02:35

Not forcing. Of course opener does not have a minimal opening and is not GF so the right choice isn't listed.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#7 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2008-June-24, 03:54

han, on Jun 24 2008, 03:35 AM, said:

... the right choice isn't listed.

Um .... I would have thought the 5th choice covered it ? :)
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#8 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-June-24, 21:13

I think 4144 is possible too, but definitely not 4153. If partner bids 3♦ that is nf.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#9 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2008-June-25, 06:28

han, on Jun 24 2008, 03:35 AM, said:

Not forcing. Of course opener does not have a minimal opening and is not GF so the right choice isn't listed.

I agree (so I voted "something else").

Many beginning texts separate opening bids into minimum (~13-15), medium (~16-18) and maximum (~19-21). For his 3rd round jump (especially opposite a limited responder), I don't think opener logically be in the minimum range. So, the "maximum minimum" poll options seem to be out as far as I am concerned. Unless you meant "medium" by "maximum minimum".

I'm curious about what shape/strength combinations responder could have to bid a non-forcing 3♦. Not four spades, not four clubs and not six hearts, for sure. And, with a minimum and three spades, responder would pass 1S some significant portion of the time.

What about diamond length? Can responder have four diamonds? Something like 2443. Does 1D-1H; 1S-2D say something different than 1D-1H; 1S-1N with regards to values?

I think responder would pass 1S if he is 35(23) and doesn't want to be in game opposite opener's 3rd round jump to 3C. Would a weak responder with 2533 shape rebid 1NT or take a preference to diamonds? Maybe that is what he can have to want to bid a non-forcing 3D now. But, I would tend to think that the diamond "fit" is enough extras for the partnership to want to be in game.

I put "fit" in quotes because opener could be 4144, but I think he will tend to be more conservative with that shape (rebidding 2C instead of 3C with more minimum medium hands).
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