[bid_em_up]

jillybean2, on Sep 1 2006, 02:27 PM, said:

bid_em_up, on Sep 1 2006, 08:09 AM, said:

In this case, the result is not obvious, now is it?

Yes, I agree 100%. I should not have tried to adjust this board or considered the expert, double dummy lines of play.
Its always a learning process what I reasonably can and cant adjust.

bid_em_up, on Sep 1 2006, 08:09 AM, said:

The only way to "encourage" people to call the TD first, is if they suffer the consequences of not doing so a few times.  Otherwise, you will continually find yourself in this position along with the position of trying to explain why an adjustment was made for one board for person A, but no adjustment is being made for person B.

Since neither side called a director until after the fact, what adjustment is there to be made? Both sides are the "offending" sides.  One for taking too much time, the other for not calling the director to protect their rights.  And although it hasnt been said, if I had to make a bet, I will put my money that is North (or South) who is both the party that took too much time, and the party that is claiming they would make.

No I don’t agree that we should be “teaching” people by penalizing them if they don’t call the TD. If there is an obvious result I think it is completely wrong not to adjust. Who are we to say that the opps werent holding up the last 2 tricks, unclear of a claim or simply stuck for the last minute?

The natural consequence of not calling the TD is that the board is unfinished, there is no obvious line and both pairs receive A-. I always tell these players that if they had called me they would have been protected and receive at worst actual result or A+.

IMHO penalizing players to teach them to call the td is arrogant and unnecessary, while giving unfair advantage to others.

jb

You seem to be missing the point. We both agree that when the result is "obvious", the "proper" thing to do is to adjust to the normal result. So take all of those hands out of your consideration.......

Then in your own words, you appear to be saying the exact same thing I am:

Quote

The natural consequence of not calling the TD is that the board is unfinished, there is no obvious line and both pairs receive A-.  I always tell these players that if they had called me they would have been protected and receive at worst actual result or A+.

Isnt this what I said?

Quote

IMHO penalizing players to teach them to call the td is arrogant and unnecessary, while giving unfair advantage to others.

Well, we disagree here. You are not penalizing anyone when a result cannot be reasonably determined. In a case like this, by refusing to adjust a board to any other result than A-/A-, you are simply enforcing the rules (your own, as stated). As a result of doing so, you will encourage players to properly call the director before time runs out.....not after. This is not being arrogant (as a TD), nor is it unnecessary.....after all, what is the point of telling the parties, "well if you would have called me before time ran out....." unless you intend to enforce it? You are not penalizing anybody for not calling the TD. They are being penalized for not following the rules and procedures.

It does not give any advantage to those players who properly follow the rules, finish on time as they should, or with regards to making an adjustment in any case where the result is clear.

However, trying to adjust the result on this particular board, does give an unfair advantage to a player knowing he can see the hand after the round change and attempt to claim he was going to finesse the heart one way or the other, since he now knows where it is located. (I am not stating this is what occured, but it could happen).

[jillybean]

Ok, I agree
My mistake I thought you were saying that if a player does not call the TD then we should not give any adjustments, my mistake.