[sceptic]

Ok here goes we were NS noone bid the grand, how would you bid this one

Scoring: IMP

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West North East South

 -     Pass  1♣    4♠
 5♦    5♠    Pass  Pass
 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass
 


I think my 5 spdes was bad but anyway I am interested why no one bid the grand here neither did anyone else when I had looked at the other tables, I just think it is odd noone bid grand in 16 tables

how would you bid it uncontested and how would you bid it with interference and what interference would you expect

[awm]

First off, it's not that great of a grand slam. You have to find the ♦Q. This is roughly 50% in general, although I could actually see going down on the auction by playing north for the card (south is much more likely to have singleton diamond than north is, because of the great spade length).

Second, with a lot of interference it's hard to bid grand slams scientifically. Most players will settle for small slam in these cases, just because you have to be very certain of a grand slam for the odds to work out in your favor.

If north/south were somehow barred, Eli and I would bid something like:

1♣ - 1♦
1♥ - 2♠!
3♣ - 3♥
3♠ - 4♣
4♦ - 4♠
5♥ - 5♠
6♥

Here the first three bids are natural, 2♠ is fourth suit game force, 3♣ is natural and 3♥ sets the suit. Subsequent bids are cuebidding, where 5♥ and 6♥ are attempts to sign off. If you play exclusion blackwood the west hand might be a good one for it (we don't).

More likely north/south will bid. I might bid 3♠ with south cards because I am very cautious at unfavorable vulnerability, but I suspect most people would bid 4♠. I'd recommend something like:

Pass - 1♣ - 4♠ - 4NT!
5♠ - Pass - Pass - 6♦
Pass - 6♥ or pass - All pass

Here 4NT is basically a takeout of 4♠ (double would be cards/suggesting defending, which is not what west wants, and 5♦ is too likely to be passed when very little is needed for slam). East's pass of 5♠ suggests little in spades, since 4NT surely showed a good hand and with spade cards east would double to discourage west from competing. 6♦ shows diamonds and hearts with a substantial diamond preference (else 5NT). East could pass (probably right at IMPs) or correct (probably right at MPs).

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

First, the 5S bid is ok, what do
you need more?
You have 2 cards = 2 tricks for partner,
he had to count as looser.
The 4S bid is, ... well agressive,
3S is enough at the given vulnerability,
3S you will raise to 4S, or if you are
agressive to 5S.

Regarding the E-W bidding.

I would go with a dbl with West, although
I agree 4NT is better, if you play it as
takeout, I dont.
East will probably pass, if he bids 5H, West
will raise to 6.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[whereagles]

I'd be quite happy to bid a small slam after 4♠, but ok

[Free]

After intervention it's an easy grand in ♣ or ♥. You just play off your ♥ and ♣ and you'll see how the ♦ split... No guessing game, it's easy.

Question is how to reach it. First of all, I'd start with a Double (yes, takeout...) where p will probably bid 5♥ since he's also short, and now West can start with 5♠. It's still not easy to find grand, but you might just get there.
If North still bids 5♠, East will probably double to show a minimum hand, where upon West will probably signoff at 6-level.

[Wackojack]

P_Marlowe, on Aug 19 2006, 01:11 PM, said:

First, the 5S bid is ok, what do
you need more?
You have 2 cards = 2 tricks for partner,
he had to count as looser.
The 4S bid is, ... well agressive,
3S is enough at the given vulnerability,
3S you will raise to 4S, or if you are
agressive to 5S.

Agreed the 4s bid is aggressive and perhaps foolhardy. I disagree that 5s is ok. I believe that since you have initially passed your partners pre-empt commands you to pass almost whatever your hand. With your particular hand and this vulnerability it is just about impossible to get a better result by bidding 5s. If you make less than 10 tricks it is not a good save against the game and you make it more likely that they bid and make a slam. If you can make 10 tricks it is just possible that they cannot make slam and you have an unlikely save but I wouldn't bet on it. Even if you turn the vulnerability round, I believe pass is still the best action. Partner has licence to make a pre-empt on a wide range of hands. It is not up to you to second guess his strength. He wants the opponents to make the last guess.

The really interesting situation with your hand would arise if you had not already passed and at green. Then I think I would bid 6s and hope opponents double and do not bid on. If they do, I hope we have an understanding about what pass and double mean in the next seat so that we can judge whether or not to bid 7s.

[rbforster]

How would most people play 5♠ by north? If it's a strong takeout bid, I'd be happy to make it with a nice 16 count, a working void, and good shape for whatever partner might bid. It probably won't find the grand, but I'll settle for the right small slam here.

[Codo]

Free, on Aug 20 2006, 07:44 AM, said:

After intervention it's an easy grand in ♣ or ♥. You just play off your ♥ and ♣ and you'll see how the ♦ split... No guessing game, it's easy.

Question is how to reach it. First of all, I'd start with a Double (yes, takeout...) where p will probably bid 5♥ since he's also short, and now West can start with 5♠. It's still not easy to find grand, but you might just get there.
If North still bids 5♠, East will probably double to show a minimum hand, where upon West will probably signoff at 6-level.

so you see, that Southg is 8221 and north 4324?? It could be 9211 and 3334 as well. The first division is more likely, but to say it is "no guess" is not true at all.

[Gpm_bg]

interesting hand truly but even if i'm bid 5♦, which i really doubt, no doubt that i'll bid 5nt after 5♠, no Dbl.
5♠ is good bid, but can't stop small slam, for grand is not very easy to be predicted.
But if i bid 5♦ and rebid 5NT, partner could have some imaginations i think