[Gerben42]

It seems to me that if we make the security checks even stricter than they are now the terrorists are winning. They are winning right now even if no bombs went off the damage to all those thousands of stranded passengers and the cost of the extra security measures are enormous.

In fact at this moment the risk of another such bomb is in fact LOWER than before they were discovered... It is a difficult question how far do we take these security measurements to take over our life?

I value my life but I would still not hesitate to board any plane even if people are allowed to bring hand luggage...

[mike777]

Great even the Brits want to kill us. Where do we go to surrender?

[the saint]

mike777, on Aug 10 2006, 09:34 PM, said:

Great even the Brits want to kill us. Where do we go to surrender?

No, we just want to revoke your independence so we can sort out a few things properly for you! However, British beauracracy being the tangled web it is, means we haven't quite got round to it after this notice was called:

(From the internet a few years ago. Nearly 6 to be precise)

To the citizens of the United States of America,

In the light of your failure to elect a President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today. Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchial duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The Right Honourable Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour', skipping the letter 'U' is nothing more than laziness on your part. Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters. You will end your love affair with the letter 'Z' (pronounced 'zed' not 'zee') and the suffix "ize" will be replaced by the suffix "ise". You will learn that the suffix 'burgh is pronounced 'burra' e.g. Edinburgh. You are welcome to respell Pittsburgh as 'Pittsberg' if you can't cope with correct pronunciation. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed". There will be no more 'bleeps' in the Jerry Springer show. If you're not old enough to cope with bad language then you shouldn't have chat shows. When you learn to develop your vocabulary then you won't have to use bad language as often.

2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of "-ize".

3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard. English accents are not limited to Cockney, upper-class twit or Mancunian (Daphne in Frasier). You will also have to learn how to understand regional accents - Scottish dramas such as "Taggart" will no longer be broadcast with subtitles. While we're talking about regions, you must learn that there is no such place as Devonshire in England. The name of the county is "Devon". If you persist in calling it Devonshire, all American States will become "shires" e.g. Texasshire, Floridashire, Louisianashire.

4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys. Hollywood will be required to cast English actors to play English characters. British sit-coms such as "Men Behaving Badly" or "Red Dwarf" will not be re-cast and watered down for a wishy-washy American audience who can't cope with the humour of occasional political incorrectness.

5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005. You should stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the 'World Series' for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.15% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. Instead of baseball, you will be allowed to play a girls' game called "rounders" which is baseball without fancy team strip, oversized gloves, collector cards or hotdogs.

7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if they give you any merde. The 97.85% of you who were not aware that there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The Russians have never been the bad guys. "Merde" is French for "5hit". You will no longer be allowed to own or carry guns. You will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous in public than a vegetable peeler. Because we don't believe you are sensible enough to handle potentially dangerous items, you will require a permit if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".

9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean. All road intersections will be replaced with roundabouts. You will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables. Roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.

10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips. Fries aren't even French, they are Belgian though 97.85% of you (including the guy who discovered fries while in Europe) are not aware of a country called Belgium. Those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called "crisps". Real chips are thick cut and fried in animal fat. The traditional accompaniment to chips is beer which should be served warm and flat. Waitresses will be trained to be more aggressive with customers.

11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.

12. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all, it is lager. From November 1st only proper British Bitter will be referred to as "beer", and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as "Lager". The substances formerly known as "American Beer" will henceforth be referred to as "Near-Frozen Knat's Urine", with the exception of the product of the American Budweiser company whose product will be referred to as "Weak Near-Frozen Knat's Urine". This will allow true Budweiser (as manufactured for the last 1000 years in Pilsen, Czech Republic) to be sold without risk of confusion.

13. From November 1st the UK will harmonise petrol (or "Gasoline" as you will be permitted to keep calling it until April 1st 2001) prices with the former USA. The UK will harmonise its prices to those of the former USA and the Former USA will, in return, adopt UK petrol prices (roughly $6/US gallon - get used to it).

14. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you’re not grown up enough to handle a gun.

15. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

Tax collectors from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all revenues due (backdated to 1776).

Thank you for your cooperation.

[hrothgar]

I've had a number of thoughts about this whole affair:

1. I'd really like a better idea just how "serious" this threat actually was. I very much believe that its possible to take down a 747 using some form of liquid explosives. Its unclear to me whether the individuals that we're arrest necessarily had the technical and organizational savy to carry out this type of attack. As sad as it may be, I've become extremely cynical about these sorts of announcements. For the most part, I think that they're more propaganda jobs by the American government than anything else. I have a bit mroe respect for the British, but even so...

2. Its interesting to think back to the 2004 presidential election where John Dean was ridiculed for claiming that the "War on Terror" should be conducted as a series of police investigations rather than military actions. The arrests made by the British are a good example of the role that law enforcement should be playing and the types of actions that contribute to real security. The terrorist plot is a great example of the type of blowback that US military adventurism creates. The terrorists that were arrested are (apparantly) British citizens, born and breed in Great Britain. Despite the fact that these individuals grew up in the heart of the Enlightenment, these individuals saw fit to attempt to blow a dozen or so airliners. We need to recognize that our own actions are contributing toward the radicalization of a major segment of the world.

3. At end of the day, I suspect that carry on liquds are going to be banned on most flights. Associated with this, I wouldn't be suprised if the cash strapped airlines start charging sick amounts of money for soda and water. They probably should continue to give out small packets of highly salted peanuts...

[Walddk]

1A: Shania Twain's records, CDs, tapes, DVDs, whatever, should be removed from the shelves until she realises that it is incorrect grammar to sing "That Don't Impress Me Much".

Grammar, lesson 1:
I don't
You don't
He, she, it, that doesn't

... if she really insists on abbreviating "does not".

Roland

[the saint]

hrothgar, on Aug 10 2006, 10:04 PM, said:

I've had a number of thoughts about this whole affair:

1. I'd really like a better idea just how "serious" this threat actually was. I very much believe that its possible to take down a 747 using some form of liquid explosives. Its unclear to me whether the individuals that we're arrest necessarily had the technical and organizational savy to carry out this type of attack. As sad as it may be, I've become extremely cynical about these sorts of announcements. For the most part, I think that they're more propaganda jobs by the American government than anything else. I have a bit mroe respect for the British, but even so...

2. Its interesting to think back to the 2004 presidential election where John Dean was ridiculed for claiming that the "War on Terror" should be conducted as a series of police investigations rather than military actions. The arrests made by the British are a good example of the role that law enforcement should be playing and the types of actions that contribute to real security. The terrorist plot is a great example of the type of blowback that US military adventurism creates. The terrorists that were arrested are (apparently) British citizens, born and breed in Great Britain. Despite the fact that these individuals grew up in the heart of the Enlightenment, these individuals saw fit to attempt to blow a dozen or so airliners. We need to recognize that our own actions are contributing toward the radicalization of a major segment of the world.

3. At end of the day, I suspect that carry on liquds are going to be banned on most flights. Associated with this, I wouldn't be suprised if the cash strapped airlines start charging sick amounts of money for soda and water. They probably should continue to give out small packets of highly salted peanuts...

In all seriousness, we have a certain amount of experience with security following on from years of IRA bombings, militant unions, and other extremist elements in society. This is a different threat, but no doubt the underlying principles behind countering it remain the same. In return the British public adopt the same phlegmatic approach - just get on with life because anything else means they win.

[mike777]

As you can see by this thread and many others despite our President saying we are in a War a real full blown War much of the country simply thinks this is a lie.

If we cannot even agree if we are at war I do not see how we can come to a conclusion on how to fight it, since we cannot even agree on what "it" is.


If nothing else I hope the next few years at least allows the country to come to a conclusion on what "it" is we are fighting. Then we can debate on the best course of action or inaction.

[the saint]

Walddk, on Aug 10 2006, 10:15 PM, said:

1A: Shania Twain's records, CDs, tapes, DVDs, whatever, should be removed from the shelves until she realises that it is incorrect grammar to sing "That Don't Impress Me Much".

Grammar, lesson 1:
I don't
You don't
He, she, it, that doesn't

... if she really insists on abbreviating "does not".

Roland

I am a Rocket Scientist, and I can tell you - her grammar doesn't impress me much!

Shania was always a 'turn the volume down, look at the pictures' singer anyway. She should be banned for crimes against music long before we start on her abuse of the English language!

[jtfanclub]

hrothgar, on Aug 10 2006, 05:04 PM, said:

I've had a number of thoughts about this whole affair:

1. I'd really like a better idea just how "serious" this threat actually was. I very much believe that its possible to take down a 747 using some form of liquid explosives. Its unclear to me whether the individuals that we're arrest necessarily had the technical and organizational savy to carry out this type of attack.

An airplane is basically a giant mylar balloon flying at half the speed of sound. It wouldn't take much of an explosion to rip it in half. Take a fluid like nitroglycerin

http://www.britannic...cro/426_77.html

and it wouldn't take much to blow a plane apart.

Not that tough to make...if you don't mind the chance of dying in the process:
http://roguesci.org/...roglycerin.html

Lots of college chemistry students make the stuff on a lark. Most survive. The key ingredient, glycerin, you can get a drug store. There is also the detail that if you were carrying a can of this stuff and you dropped it you'd be having a closed casket funeral along with everyone else within 10 meters, but I really doubt the terrorists cared about that.

The shocking thing to me is not that the terrorists tried it, but that we haven't banned this stuff before. I heard people saying "they're taking my nail clippers but letting me take my can of shaving cream on board? Are they trying to stop the terrorists or help them" since just after 9/11. Banning all liquids is dumb, but allowing pressurized steel containers with an unknown liquid in them is asking for trouble.

[hrothgar]

jtfanclub, on Aug 11 2006, 01:52 AM, said:

An airplane is basically a giant mylar balloon flying at half the speed of sound.  It wouldn't take much of an explosion to rip it in half.  Take a fluid like nitroglycerin

http://www.britannic...cro/426_77.html

and it wouldn't take much to blow a plane apart.

Not that tough to make...if you don't mind the chance of dying in the process:
http://roguesci.org/...roglycerin.html

I know a fair amount about nitroglycerin and considered making some back in my college days and concluded that I wasn't sure that I could (safely) remove the water, let alone transport the resulting liquid. (We ended up making nitrogen tri-iodide instead)

I recognize that any "decent" bomb maker is almost certainly much better at this type of chemistry than I am. I also know that El Qaeda successfully used a nitroglycerin based explosion back in the 1990s. However, at this point in time the British have released little to no information about the individuals that they rounded up. The news coverage suggests that the British legal system prevents the government from providing much in the way of details. In short, I have no way of knowing whether the suspects are well educated / semi profession bomb makers or just a bunch of random blowhards.

I remember the last great success in the great war on terror when the Bushies arrested some kind of squeege-man cult down in Miami and claimed that they cracked a major El Queda cell.

[Robert]

Please stack your arms and move into the POW holding areas.

England taking over America is suggesting that the U.S. military would not even try to resist. We resisted in 1776 and today would be 'very heavy' favorites at most betting sites.

I am not a gambling man, however, I would take the U.S. military and give up the points. England would be a huge underdog.

I do take note that I did not even notice the previous posting of this silly suggestion several years ago. I wonder why the British tax collection system has not contacted me in the previous six years. Perhaps they read the results of their last attempts to collect taxes in American areas of the world.

Shania Twain sells huge numbers of various products. If you do not like her music, please refain from buying them. She will not notice the shortfall in her very large income.

Best regards,
Robert

[pclayton]

I'm a little cynical myself, but I think I'll let the whole mess sort itself out before I rush to any judgement.

Midterm between elections, I don't think anyone has anything to gain by trumping up a non-event.

If I am inconvienced and can't bring shampoo on my trip to Hawaii this December, I guess I'll just have to buy 45 SPF when I get there

[Walddk]

Robert, on Aug 11 2006, 06:10 AM, said:

Please stack your arms and move into the POW holding areas.

England taking over America is suggesting that the U.S. military would not even try to resist. We resisted in 1776 and today would be 'very heavy' favorites at most betting sites.

I am not a gambling man, however, I would take the U.S. military and give up the points. England would be a huge underdog.

I do take note that I did not even notice the previous posting of this silly suggestion several years ago. I wonder why the British tax collection system has not contacted me in the previous six years. Perhaps they read the results of their last attempts to collect taxes in American areas of the world.

Shania Twain sells huge numbers of various products. If you do not like her music, please refain from buying them. She will not notice the shortfall in her very large income.

Best regards,
Robert

People without a sense of humour must have a boring life, but after reading your view I realise that some don't know what it means. I think you should read the saint's post once more.

Piet Hein, a Danish scientist, mathematician, inventor, author, and poet, was famous for his "grooks". Here is one, translated into English:

Taking fun
as simply fun
and earnestness
in earnest
shows how thoroughly
thou none
of the two
discernest.


Roland

[lalislol]

TO 'the saint':
Absolutely hilarious...are you the original author?...How did I miss that, I wonder.
What are 'chooons'?...reference to 'tunes' or to tobacco?

TO 'robert':
If your post was not 'tongue in cheek', please re-read 'the saint's' submission, which was...a few whiffs of nitrous oxide beforehand might help.

To Roland:
I would not attempt to correct your translation of course...but might suggest that someone better versed in verse would make a smoother rendition.

[paulg]

Walddk, on Aug 10 2006, 11:15 PM, said:

1A: Shania Twain's records, CDs, tapes, DVDs, whatever, should be removed from the shelves until she realises that it is incorrect grammar to sing "That Don't Impress Me Much".

Grammar, lesson 1:
I don't
You don't
He, she, it, that doesn't

... if she really insists on abbreviating "does not".

Roland

For definitive answers on questions regarding American and British English, I recommend this excellent blog - separated by a common language.

Lynne, a Scrabble playing friend of my wife, has also written (on the Scrabble boards) that the Americans speak (and spell) the Old English of the Pilgrim Fathers, whereas we have been infected by the French. So who is really speaking English?

Paul

[helene_t]

I agree with Gerben. This kind of hysteric reactions are just what the terrorists are aiming at.

[Walddk]

lalislol, on Aug 11 2006, 10:55 AM, said:

To Roland:
I would not attempt to correct your translation of course...but might suggest that someone better versed in verse would make a smoother rendition.  

I claim no responsibility, Larry. The grook "The Eternal Twins" was translated by an Englishman; maybe not a poet, but English was his native language

http://www.btinterne...lue/grooks.html

Piet Hein wrote more than 10,000 grooks (grugs in Danish), and most of them are quite funny, with a touch of wit, irony and subtlety. Here is another I like very much:

CONSOLATION GROOK
Losing one glove
is certainly painful,
but nothing
compared to the pain
of losing one,
throwing away the other,
and finding
the first one again.

Making rhymes was not his objective. Besides, it's quite difficult to translate poems into another language without losing some of the subtlelties.

Roland

[keylime]

All of this very scary and real feelings I have, makes me more appreciative of terra firma. Trains look even more appealing to me now.

[geller]

"Midterm between elections, I don't think anyone has anything to gain by trumping up a non-event."


You should know that in 3 months (early Nov 2006) ALL members of the lower house of the U.S. Congress and 1/3 of the members of the U.S. Senate are up for reelection, and the Republicans are trailing by about 15 points in the opinion polls now. Anyone looking for an ulterior motive doesn't have to try very hard to find one. (I'm not implying whether or not this is the case, merely pointing out the obvious possibility.)

[pclayton]

geller, on Aug 11 2006, 06:32 AM, said:

"Midterm between elections, I don't think anyone has anything to gain by trumping up a non-event."


You should know that in 3 months (early Nov 2006) ALL members of the lower house of the U.S. Congress and 1/3 of the members of the U.S. Senate are up for reelection, and the Republicans are trailing by about 15 points in the opinion polls now. Anyone looking for an ulterior motive doesn't have to try very hard to find one. (I'm not implying whether or not this is the case, merely pointing out the obvious possibility.)

I think the Connecticut Primary sums up the mood of the country right now. A presidential running mate was bounced out in the primary because he appeared to be closer to W than the other.

How safe can the Red states be?

A few terrorists oversea won't move the polls much. Are the Republicans even seen as 'tough on terror' anymore?