[paulhar]

Hi - I'd like to get an idea of how the world plays the following auction:

1H by partner
1S overcall
4C by you.

Before I get flamed, I did include one answer I consider silly but expect will be chosen, and wanted to avoid a lot of people posting 'other, I play...'

[awm]

The "standard" interpretation of this bid is natural and preemptive. However, it's much more typical to play it as a splinter, and this is what I would assume from an expert partner without discussion.

In many of my regular partnerships, I play this jump as fit showing (heart raise with a good club suit) but I wouldn't assume that without discussion.

[inquiry]

I plzy it as "fit jump" showing club suit with values and fit for partners suit. The only ohter option is to play it as a splinter. I will not play this as preemptive, ever.

[Stephen Tu]

Questions for those using 4c = fit jump:
- do you also play 3c as a fit jump? If not, what is 3c? If so, what is the difference between 3c/4c, more hcp, more shape, both/either?

- if you play both 3c/4c as fit showing, you feel that being able to have different degradations of playing strength (or whatever your distinction is) is a clear gain vs. being able to splinter in clubs? Or do you have some other sequence available to show a club splinter?

[luke warm]

Stephen Tu, on Aug 6 2006, 07:17 PM, said:

Questions for those using 4c = fit jump:
- do you also play 3c as a fit jump? If not, what is 3c? If so, what is the difference between 3c/4c, more hcp, more shape, both/either?

- if you play both 3c/4c as fit showing, you feel that being to have different degradations of playing strength (or whatever your distinction is) is a clear gain vs. being able to splinter in clubs? Or do you have some other sequence available to show a club splinter?

this is probably riddled with theoretical holes, but can 1h (1s) 3c be used as splinter but with spades stopped (for 3nt) and 4c as splinter w/out spades stopped? or fit jump with and without?

[inquiry]

Stephen Tu, on Aug 6 2006, 07:17 PM, said:

Questions for those using 4c = fit jump:
- do you also play 3c as a fit jump?
If so, what is the difference between 3c/4c, more hcp, more shape, both/either?

Both are fit jumps. The way I like to play these are,

1) 4C = enough to force to game
2) 3C = invite to 4M (less than GF values)
3) 3C = can include hands too strong for 4C, in which case, you will not be passing 3M or 4M by partner. Over 3M, you can make a slam try (or raise to 4M). The theory is if partner bids 4M over 3C, his extra values will put you in the slam zone.

Most of time 3C is the invite hand. I don't splinter in competion (excelpt in their suit) or preempt after we have opened the hand.

[paulhar]

OK, I guess I'm just old-fashioned.

First, thank God nobody chose Gerber. It means this was answered by real players.

A friend of mine that commonly plays among experts claimed that everbody played this as a splinter, unless they played something weird like fit-showing.

I haven't tried fit-showing, but it would seem as though percentages would favor using this bid as preemptive rather than a splitner.

First, to use it as a splinter, you have to have a hand interested in slam after your opponent has overcalled (and failed to choose a weak jump overcall), and have the singleton be in some other suit than the one overcalled. Secondly, showing the singleton has to dramatically increase your chances of getting the level right. If you're decent bidders, it would seem that you would get the game or slam decision correct most of the time anyway without the splinter.

On the other hand, if you play it preemptive, you get to show a hand you can't show otherwise. You make it difficult for the opponents to know whether it's right to bid 4S or not; and if they do bid 4S, partner should know which of 5C, pass, or double is correct. Not playing this preemptive, you could in theory back into the auction later, but you've given the opponents another round to communicate and if doubling you is the right action, they'll be in a lot better position to do it.

[kenrexford]

Undiscussed, I would expert two experts to assume the inferior Splinter meaning, even if both experts preferred the superior fit-showing meaning.

[Double !]

Most of my partners on BBO don't play fit-jumps, but i selected "other" for fit-jump.

However, I see nothing wrong with playing 4C as a splinter, and i need not have a spade stack behind the 1S bidder. I could very easily have a 4441 hand (or 3451) with good heart honors. That might make it easier for partner to evaluate his/her hand in terms of where losers might be and how high to go.
I believe that either use is fine, just know what you're doing.

I don't know what the commonly accedpted differentiation between 3 and 4 club bids is. Ben's way of playing it is good, probably the way to go. One could also use the two bids to differentiate between 3 and 4-card trump support. In addition, there are still those who would play 3C as a weak jump-shift (in comp.).

DHL

[FrancesHinden]

I also play it as a fit jump.

In one partnership I play 1H (1S) 3C as a 4-card limit raise (2NT natural) so it is the only fit jump in clubs I have available.

In the other partnership I play both 3C and 4C as fit jumps.

[bid_em_up]

One of the flaws behind playing 4m as splinter bid in this auction (even though this is how I would interpret the bid lacking other agreements) is more theoritical.

Partner has shown 5+ hearts. RHO has effectively shown 5+ spades. One of two things is likely to happen here when you bid 4C. Either LHO is going to double it (showing the minor) allowing the opps to find their best sacrifice (or two-suited fit) or it will be partners secondary suit and the splinter will usually (not always) cause partner to devalue their hand.

About the only time I would use this bid, would be if I intended to investigate beyond 4M.

[paulg]

I play it as fit, but would assume splinter without discussion.

Paul

[EricK]

Wouldn't it be ironic if the vast majority of people play it as fit-jump but would assume splinter without discussion!

A similar thing happens with 4NT in various sequences. No pair in their right minds would play some of these 4NTs as Blackwood if they discussed it beforehand, but given no discussion they would both assume Blackwood.

[awm]

I suspect the prevalence of fit jumps has to do with the online bridge-forum-contributing community. The Robson/Segal electronic book on competitive bidding has spread fairly widely through this community. Anyone who wasn't aware of it has been made so by repeated forum posts about it.

However, in the bridge playing community as a whole there are many people who do not read or contribute to BBO forums. This includes a lot of card players who don't even play online, as well as people who play online but don't spend a great deal of time reading online rants about the game. Amongst these folks, I suspect fit jumps are far less prevalent. In fact I'm not sure I've ever seen a fit jump bid against me in a live tournament! Certainly the majority of club players don't even know what a fit jump is or why anyone would play one. On the other hand most of them do know about splinters.

[willow23]

If I was not myself and bidded that ..it would be some type of splinter..

If playing bergen raises ..it may have to be preemptive since 3♣ would be a limit/mixed raise of some sort..

If no bergen 3♣ should be pre-emptive and 4♣ a splinter.

Of course, it goes without saying, some agreement must be made

[the hog]

Fit jump for me. The likelihood of having a splinter in C decreases with the overcall. Incidentally most tournament players in Oz play this as a fit jump and not a splinter.