[badderzboy]

Mollo had some great characters in his books but what are the modern day types?

What would be their motto / common saying and how do u recognise the type by their bidding, doubles and overcalls?

Eg,

The Basher

- The motto might be "game in every part score, slam in every game" or LTC said bid 4 holding Qxx Qxx Qxxx Qxx ....

- The Overcalls / Opening pre-empts style - well I had a 6 card suit - holding 987432...

- 1♦ - Double holding Jxxx Qxxx x Kxxx well we had a fit somewhere and LOTT said I'd be protected...

The scientist - "It may take 25bids but ze wil bid the slam eventually"

The optimist - " Well it only needed 3 finesses" (or is this a Roland slam?) or "Gotta be in it to win it"

The Miserable old git - " Slam - humbug I don't bid slams I wanna play in game with 39pts - that J might be offside"

The pessimist - "Well the trumps might break 6-0 when u hold 7 ..."

The LO(Person) - "Sorry Dear but did I really reverse there?"

How would the above bid/overcall and pre-empt? and better mottos pls

Cheers

Steve

[Free]

The pointed rounder: asks about every bid how many "points" you or partner have. When you say you don't use points he keeps asking for his precious points and refuses to bid unless he gets a decent answer. "0-37" is an ok explanation for him.

[Trumpace]

Why only bidding types?

Why don't you consider play?

The Virtue: Who always takes a finesse.

The Vice: Looks for squeezes on cold hands making them too hot to handle.

Second Hand Highway man: Always plays an honour to the second trick, even with Qxx under AKJT987.

Insurance Agent: Always rejects a claim.

Runner up: Says "sh*t" after the card is played.

The race car driver: Often says, "Please play". "faster pls" and "too slow, bye" are also common heard from this one.


Plenty more...

[hrothgar]

I think that some of the glory of Mollo is the eternal nature of the archetypes...

I don't think that the Hog, the Walrus, or the Secretary Bird have passed from the scene...

To the extent that new characters have emerged, its primarily a function of social settings that Mollo didn't imagine.

Need to think about this some.

[Aberlour10]

I would add: "The music freak", his style of play depends on the kind of music he listens during the playing.
If Guns & Roses "Welcome to the Jungle"- he doubles and redoubles by every possibility, if Mozart's "Requiem" - he falls for 10 minutes in deep thoughts about the right lead in the partscore


Robert

[ArcLight]

>The pointed rounder: asks about every bid how many "points" you or partner have. When you say you don't use points he keeps asking for his precious points and refuses to bid unless he gets a decent answer. "0-37" is an ok explanation for him.


How about the cheater: They use an unusual system, usually complex, and don't alert. Frequently their bids mean something different from what you would expect. If you are unfamiliar with their system, you are frustrated because you want to be able to draw inferences from their bids (or lack of bids). So you ask questions, only to get cryptic responses. This generates further questions. They feel its perfectly alright for them to draw inferences from your bidding, but its not ok to draw inferences about theirs. If you ask questions you are delaying the game and they get annoyed.



The high strung nit picker - playing against intermediates in club games (as opposed to advanced players in a regional they will bitterly complain if there is ever a slight pause at any time, even if its a high level bid in competition. "Bridge is not agame that thrusts decisions upon us, you are never allowed to think."




>Insurance Agent: Always rejects a claim.


>The race car driver: Often says, "Please play". "faster pls" and "too slow, bye" are also common heard from this one.

[hrothgar]

ArcLight, on Aug 8 2006, 03:33 PM, said:

How about the cheater:  They use an unusual system, usually complex, and don't alert.  Frequently their bids mean something different from what you would expect.  If you are unfamiliar with their system, you are frustrated because you want to be able to draw inferences from their bids (or lack of bids).

Here's another possible archetype: Larry the Lemming:

Larry is a clueless little git whose world is limited to doing what everyone else does... Larry fancies himself as quite cunning; in actuality he's quite simple minded and never looks at the big picture. Larry spends enormous amounts of time and effort trying to make sure that he's following the best possible possible path to his final destination without ever realizing that he (and his compadres) are running towards the edge of a cliff.

Larry refuses to invest any time or effort considering in anything outside the one true path... Larry is incredible bitter that others might question the lemming vision and is constantly trying to pass new regulations to forbid anyone else from veering off to the right.

In all seriousness, you do recognize that you are (essentially) claiming that cheating is synonymous with playing systems that you don't know. (You also state that cheaters don't alert their bids however, this is a subset of those who play unusual systems). However, you fail to consider that there are a hell of lot of different ways to cheat at bridge, most of which have nothing to do with unsual systems...

I understand that you want to live your life in a sheltered little box. Unfortunately for you, laws and ethical standards aren't designed so that you can remain willfully ignorant of anything that doesn't fit your silly little world view.

Get over it...

[blackshoe]

When a pair fails to adequately explain their auction(s), I would put it down to one of two things: either they don't know their obligations wrt full disclosure, or they don't know their system as well as they should. As a wise man once said

Quote

Do not attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.

That said, it is certainly possible (although without other evidence I would not expect it, and would certainly not allege it) that a pair who uses complex methods and fails to adequately explain them is doing so deliberately, and hence cheating.

While Larry the Lemming might well be a possible archetype, on the evidence here I don't think ArcLight necessarily fits the mold - and even if he does, I don't think his opinion rates Hrothgar's reaction.

[boris3161]

How about the "pseudo legal eagle" who insists a pass in first seat on 12 points should be alerted? Or insists that a weak nt (12-14) is unethical? Or that a weak 2 bid must contain exactly 6 cards headed by 2 of the top 3 cards and 6-10 points - if not it is cheating?

[ArcLight]

>Or that a weak 2 bid must contain exactly 6 cards headed by 2 of the top 3 cards and 6-10 points - if not it is cheating?

I frequently ask their pard what they expect for this bid because so many play it differently. Just as long as you know their partnership agreement

[kenberg]

There is also the "It's all about me" player. On the last two boards of a recent acbl tourney I came across one of these. He completely hogged the bidding giving us two very good scores with no effort on our part. He explained to his partner that he had to do this because their previous scores had been so bad this was his their only chance. Chance for what? To bring their game to 40%? I like good scores as well as the next guy, but I also enjoy earning them.

Trust me, I understand about pushing a bit in some circumstances. That's not the right description for what he was doing.

[keylime]

A few more:

The "Son, we don't do that here" player - When confounded with new concepts scorn suddenly erupts from the LOL. The eyes raise with resolution as they proudly uphold the classic style until their scores tank in the 40's.

The "Let's play convention X, Y, and Z before gametime" player - Eager to show their prowess to their pard, they suggest that playing transfer advances, slow arrival, and Keri engine before gametime would improve their score, only to screw the game up completely when pard forgets that 1NT - 2C forced 2D not asked for a major.

The "If they hesistate even slightly, I shoot them" player - Ever the enforcer of active ethics, this player waits for each and every chance to call the TD because their RHO actually took ten seconds over a skip bid and then passed.

The "point-a-holic" - This player must based everything on points. They value stiff aces at 4 points, and their q-x's as a working 2. They refuse to downgrade, for the fear that the 4321 scale might actually be deficient.

The "fraud" - This player plays often on the best teams the local club can generate, but fails miserably when playing with their peers. They still believe they have enough game to compete, but the results tell them to stop trying to contend against A/X and well prepared partnerships.

Lastly...

The "loafer" - This player doesn't care about results or style or convention choice. Their goal is to see people, and to maybe be seen as well. Their hope is to leave happier than when they arrived.

[Free]

"The fake natural player": he wants everything natural, yet he plays stayman, transfers, blacky, checkback, and lots of other conventions...

"The real natural player": he needs a 7 card to preempt, and is devastated if you do it on a 6 card. He doesn't play transfers yet, uses the principle "no jump no game", and doubles on every opening hand just to show his points.

[bid_em_up]

Sorry Dwayne, Most of these have been done before.

Quote

The "Son, we don't do that here" player - When confounded with new concepts scorn suddenly erupts from the LOL. The eyes raise with resolution as they proudly uphold the classic style until their scores tank in the 40's.

David Bird's, The Abbot.

Quote

The "Let's play convention X, Y, and Z before gametime" player - Eager to show their prowess to their pard, they suggest that playing transfer advances, slow arrival, and Keri engine before gametime would improve their score, only to screw the game up completely when pard forgets that 1NT - 2C forced 2D not asked for a major.

Mollo's Rueful Rabbit and Timothy Toucan, although the Rabbit's theory was that since he was always confused, forgetting conventions wouldn't hurt his score any, but the opponents would be more confused than usual when paired against the Rabbit (not being familiar with the conventions), thereby giving his side an advantage.

Quote

The "If they hesistate even slightly, I shoot them" player - Ever the enforcer of active ethics, this player waits for each and every chance to call the TD because their RHO actually took ten seconds over a skip bid and then passed.

Mollo's Secretary Bird.

Quote

The "point-a-holic" - This player must based everything on points. They value stiff aces at 4 points, and their q-x's as a working 2. They refuse to downgrade, for the fear that the 4321 scale might actually be deficient.

Mollo's Walter the Walrus.

Quote

The "fraud" - This player plays often on the best teams the local club can generate, but fails miserably when playing with their peers. They still believe they have enough game to compete, but the results tell them to stop trying to contend against A/X and well prepared partnerships.

SJ Simon's, Unlucky Expert or Futile Willy or Mollo's Papa the Greek and Molly the Mule.

Quote

Lastly...

The "loafer" - This player doesn't care about results or style or convention choice. Their goal is to see people, and to maybe be seen as well. Their hope is to leave happier than when they arrived.

Any LOL. Although, in fairness, most of them do tend to care about their results, they just stand no chance of improving them.

[bid_em_up]

Trumpace, on Aug 7 2006, 07:13 PM, said:

The race car driver: Often says, "Please play". "faster pls" and "too slow, bye" are also common heard from this one.

I call this one a Rabbit. Always hopping from one table to another in search of a speedier game.