[cnszsun]

Scoring: IMP

P-P-1H-2D
4H-5D-P-P
X-P-5H-P
P-X-AP

---

I'm 3rd hand, red vs white
first, do you agree with my 1♥?
second, will you pull your partner's double of 5♦, by the way what will my pickup partner's hand be like thinking of his 4♥ bid as a passed hand?
Thanks

[Blofeld]

Disagree with 1♥.

I want to preempt on this hand. 3♥ seems about right.

Having opened 1♥ and seen partner bid a preemptive 4♥ (I assume we're playing something standard?) then yes, I'll pull the double.

[MickyB]

Red vs white with 4 spades as well, I'll make do with a 2♥ opening. Otherwise I agree with Owen.

[mike777]

In a Pickup game strongly prefer pass not 1H.

[neilkaz]

I wouldn't dream of opening this 7 HCP hand 1♥ unless playing with a pD who'd expect it.

Opposite a passed PD I'd open 2H vul and 3H if white vs Red, and just forget about having 4 spade spots.

More problems arise from opening much too light with pickups than can be imagined.

Here's why... it is because they don't expect it and rightfully expect you to have more HCP and when the auction gets competitive, well, you experienced what happens.

[pclayton]

I don't like 1♥, but I know some good players that will open it 1♥, at least part of the time. Their idea is that 1♥ will act more as an impediment than 2 or 3♥.

At these colors, I wouldn't dream of pulling. Even if they are making, you are trading a likely -590 or -690 for -800 or -1100. And if they go down it is a huge loss.

I would have opened it 2 or 3♥ depending on my mood; probably 3 and checked afterward.

[SoTired]

red vs white 2H seems obvious, 1H clearly mistake, 3H is risky but not wrong. with pickup pard, I'd pass 5DX because 5HX is most likely getting killed and partner may not have long hearts but 3h and a near opener which gives us a chance to set 5D. 5DXmaking is 550,but 5HX getting killed is 1100.

this is the problem with 1H. While it looks cool to start, you did not consider that you have a partner also who is allowed to trust you. Similar to responding 1H with xxx xxxxxx xxx x when partner opens 1C.

I don't know why you opened 1H instead of 2H (habit of no preempt with 4-card major and forgot where pass button located???)

[pclayton]

3♥ has less downside than you think. With AQJ, the opponents won't be falling over themselves to saw you off with KT9.

But 2♥ is certainly a 'normal' opening. The spade length makes a preempt less appetizing, but 4♠ isn't their only landing spot.

[cnszsun]

I think my point is:
We all have different strategy at 3rd seat from 1st or 2nd seat, like opening light, opening with 4 card majors. Bearing this in mind, 3rd hand opener's partner normally will respond more cautious, so you are allowed to make some undisciplined bid at 3rd seat.
Returning to this hand, at this vulnerability most of the time we will not have game, also we don't want to make save over their game. So at vul vs not, 3rd seat, do you still open light. For example will you open 1h with xx AQJx xx Kxxx or xxx AKJxx xxx xx? If the answer is yes, then maybe 1h is more safer than 2h with the posted hands.

[mike777]

cnszsun, on Aug 5 2006, 06:34 PM, said:

I think my point is:
We all have different strategy at 3rd seat from 1st or 2nd seat, like opening light, opening with 4 card majors. Bearing this in mind, 3rd hand opener's partner normally will respond more cautious, so you are allowed to make some undisciplined bid at 3rd seat.
Returning to this hand, at this vulnerability most of the time we will not have game, also we don't want to make save over their game. So at vul vs not, 3rd seat, do you still open light. For example will you open 1h with xx AQJx xx Kxxx or xxx AKJxx xxx xx? If the answer is yes, then maybe 1h is more safer than 2h with the posted hands.

At vul my answer is a very strong pass with a pickup or with a long partnership

[neilkaz]

cnszsun, on Aug 5 2006, 06:34 PM, said:

I think my point is:
We all have different strategy at 3rd seat from 1st or 2nd seat, like opening light, opening with 4 card majors. Bearing this in mind, 3rd hand opener's partner normally will respond more cautious, so you are allowed to make some undisciplined bid at 3rd seat.
Returning to this hand, at this vulnerability most of the time we will not have game, also we don't want to make save over their game. So at vul vs not, 3rd seat, do you still open light. For example will you open 1h with xx AQJx xx Kxxx or xxx AKJxx xxx xx? If the answer is yes, then maybe 1h is more safer than 2h with the posted hands.

I differ from the masses, but have seen endless problems coming from opening too light in 3rd spot, and that is playing with almost anyone. Most of us, including me, open rather aggressively in 1st and 2nd (as compared to styles 20+ years ago) so less is lost by hoping for a passout, or by passing in 3rd seat and not getting buried by PD in a competitive auction.

I almost never open a 4 card major in 3rd seat and if I do it will look like AQJx or better. But here, Red vs White..I really don't want to get to high in a competitive auction and just will pass and hope for a passout.

In the second hand..I'd 2H in 3rd seat if equal or fav vul and often do it anyhow with a PD who might expect it vs weaker opps. VS strong opps, I may get nailed too often, and I don't hinder their bidding enough.

.. neilkaz ..

[adhoc3]

I would not bame 1♥ opening. I doubt on pard's 4♥. What kind of hand he got that he could not bid anything else? 2H, 2NT, 3D, 3H..... did he realy have no other bid??

[willow23]

With pick-up partners...I always warn them that I may open light in 3rd and use rule of 15 in 4th..which can be light as well....Hope you issued a warning:)

I agree with your 1♥ bid as 1 do not make it a practice to pre-empt with a side 4 card major..

I will not pull partner out..I will trust his judgement...p should have good shape and hopefully 1+ tricks in !d and 9-12 hcp, so i would tough it out...

[HeartA]

I don't agee with 1H. I would open 3H or 2H.

[jtfanclub]

cnszsun, on Aug 5 2006, 03:32 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

P-P-1H-2D
4H-5D-P-P
X-P-5H-P
P-X-AP

---

I'm 3rd hand, red vs white
first, do you agree with my 1♥?
second, will you pull your partner's double of 5♦, by the way what will my pickup partner's hand be like thinking of his 4♥ bid as a passed hand?
Thanks

Partner's got some hearts, so I don't think he passed with a 12 count. It's possible that he can set 5♦ in his hand, but I really doubt it. I don't think that's going to come up frequently enough to make it worth having a bid for it. With a regular partner, I'd interpret it to mean:

"Partner, you may have been thinking about going on or doubling, but scared because I could bid 4♥ with next to nothing. Well, it turns out I actually have something- 1 or 2 tricks on defense, and some shape and tricks on offense".

Something like, say....
Axx
Kxxxx
x
xxxx

Well, you're going to lose 2 spades, 1 diamond, and 1 club, for 500. They're going to make 5♦X for 550 or even 650. On the third hand, if his points are in other suits, we may yet be able to set it.

At any other vulnerability, I'd pull. Partner's not giving me an order, he's just telling me about his hand because he hasn't done much of that previously. But at this vulnerability, I just pass and apologize profusely for my opening if they make it.

[cnszsun]

jtfanclub, on Aug 7 2006, 06:01 AM, said:

Partner's got some hearts, so I don't think he passed with a 12 count.  It's possible that he can set 5♦ in his hand, but I really doubt it.  I don't think that's going to come up frequently enough to make it worth having a bid for it.  With a regular partner, I'd interpret it to mean:

"Partner, you may have been thinking about going on or doubling, but scared because I could bid 4♥ with next to nothing.  Well, it turns out I actually have something- 1 or 2 tricks on defense, and some shape and tricks on offense". 

Something like, say....
Axx
Kxxxx
x
xxxx

Well, you're going to lose 2 spades, 1 diamond, and 1 club, for 500.  They're going to make 5♦X for 550 or even 650.  On the third hand, if his points are in other suits, we may yet be able to set it. 

At any other vulnerability, I'd pull.  Partner's not giving me an order, he's just telling me about his hand because he hasn't done much of that previously.  But at this vulnerability, I just pass and apologize profusely for my opening if they make it.

I agree with what jtfanclub said here. In fact, after i bid 5h i was regreted. Even if 5dx will make in most cases, but 5hx is also impossible to escape from down 2.
I am still interested in your opinion about 3rd seat opening strategy at different vulnerability. Just rasise my question again, will you open 1h at green or at red with such hands, or what's your minimum hand for a light opening:
xx AQJx xx Kxxx or xxx AKJxx xxx xx?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I would have bid 2H, if youthink you
are too strong bid 3H, ... but 1H is certainly
ok as a tactical bid.

I pull the penalty double, since I dont have
the defense partner can expect, and
I will see eeraly enough, what he has
after dummy goes down.

For starters, he should have at least 4 hearts.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Codo]

cnszsun, on Aug 5 2006, 05:32 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

P-P-1H-2D
4H-5D-P-P
X-P-5H-P
P-X-AP

---

I'm 3rd hand, red vs white
first, do you agree with my 1♥?
second, will you pull your partner's double of 5♦, by the way what will my pickup partner's hand be like thinking of his 4♥ bid as a passed hand?
Thanks

I strongly dislike the approach: I open very light in 3. hand but after pd doubled for penalties, I overrule his descission because I opened too light.

If I open these hands 1 Heart, I surely will always sit out a double from pd.
I had prefered a 3 Heart opening but had really no problems with pass, 1 Heart or even 4 Heart from pd.

But as responder I had known, that third hand openings tend to be made on very different hand types, so a double had been based on the idea, that I can set this contract nearly in my own.