[kenrexford]

AKxxx-Axx-Axxx-x.

Six losers.

Give partner Qxx-xxxx-KQx-xxx, three covers, and you will make 4♠ on any lead, right?

Change partner's hand to Qxx-xxx-KQxx-xxx, still three covers, and you still make 4♠ on any lead. But, with no change in cover cards and no change in Responder's LTC, and no change in any other valuation I know, you make 11 tricks if diamonds are trumps.

Change partner's hand to Qxx-xxx-KQxxx-xx, and you now can make 11 tricks in spades, but 12 tricks in diamonds. Same cover cards.

This is not all that shocking, perhaps. But, if the auction is 1♠-P-2♠-P-3♦...

[FrancesHinden]

kenrexford, on Aug 10 2006, 01:04 PM, said:

AKxxx-Axx-Axxx-x.

Six losers.

Give partner Qxx-xxxx-KQx-xxx, three covers, and you will make 4♠ on any lead, right?

Nope. I expect to go off in 4S a large percentage of the time (any time trumps are 4-1, plus all the rest of the time I can't find anything to do with the long diamond).

[barmar]

kenrexford, on Aug 10 2006, 08:04 AM, said:

Change partner's hand to Qxx-xxx-KQxx-xxx, still three covers, and you still make 4♠ on any lead. But, with no change in cover cards and no change in Responder's LTC, and no change in any other valuation I know, you make 11 tricks if diamonds are trumps.

What you've discovered is the well-known guideline that 4-4 fits tend to be better trump suits than 5-3 fits, often adding a trick. You can ruff in both hands, and the uneven suit can be used to take pitches.

A few months ago Bridge World's "Classic Rewind" section contained an old article that examined this in great detail.

[mikestar]

This type of hand is an excellent argument for Marshal Miles' game tries. After 1♠-2♠, 3♦ is a long suit try showing a real suit. This can also be used on hands with slam interest where you will bid game over 3♠ by partner. If partner is going to accept he should bid 4♦ on the way to 4♠ with a good diamond fit.

This is made possible by a 2NT inquiry that covers both short suit and help suit game tries--while concealing as much info as possible from the opponents. Responder can bid 3♠ or 4♠ when opener's shape doesn't matter to him, and otherwise bids the cheapest suit where he would reject a short-suit game try.

[kenrexford]

Gotta add the diamond Jack for the "always make" comment.

The point was not so much on the 4-4 fit. That's a given and established idea. The more interesting is the discovery of the 5-4 alternative.

Opener has a simple 6-loser hand, or seven-winner hand.

If Responder holds Qxx-xxx-KQxxx-xx, he holds what appears to be three cover cards, justifying a game in spades, but only that, if you assess cover cards.

If you use simple LTC, Responder has eight losers. 24-(6+8) = 10 tricks, again, only game in spades, right?

If you invert to LTC for Responder (8) and cover cards for Declarer (A+K+A+A+stiffoppositedoubleton), 10 tricks again.

But, a diamond slam makes. The 5-3 provides TWO additional cover cards for the diamond contract, IF a side suit has two slow losers (Axx opposite xxx).

When this layout exists, then, values justifying mere simple acceptance of the game try in the 5-3 fit is often enough to make a slam move in a newly-found 4-5 fit.

[barmar]

kenrexford, on Aug 10 2006, 03:14 PM, said:

The point was not so much on the 4-4 fit. That's a given and established idea. The more interesting is the discovery of the 5-4 alternative.

Oops, I missed the third part of your original post.

I believe the Bridge World article also talked about cases like this. Notice again that the trump suit that allows slam to make is the the one with the more mirrored distribution -- you need the less even distribution in the side suit for discards.

What's really going on here is a very nice double fit, with absolutely no wasted values. Notice that all the honors are working -- the ♠Q is practically a guaranteed trick in both ♦ contracts. Swap the majors in either hand and you can't even make 5♦ with the third hand.

[kenrexford]

Think about this layout strength in real world terms.

Suppose you are dealt Kxx-xx-KQxxx-xxx, and partner opens 1♠. If a simple raise to 2♠ shows constructive values, this is probably your call. Even if not, 2♠ is still the call.

Now, what if partner makes a natural game try of 3♦? By "natural game try," you mean at least four diamonds and at worst a six-loser hand. This sure looks like the hand to accept game, right?

But, think more on this. Give partner a typical minimum for his invite, something like AQxxx-Axx-Axxx-x. Six losers. However, 6♦ makes when spades are 3-2 and diamonds no worse than 3-1.

When the 5-3 major fit is found, and then a 5-4 secondary fit is found, the critical cards are (1) A-K-Q in the major, (2) A-K-Q in the 5-4 side fit, (3) one side Ace, and (4) one side stiff. That's a mere 22 HCP's, plus a stiff.

Give Responder three of the lowest critical cards:

KQx-xxx-Qxxxx-xx

A 7-count. Opener needs Axxxx-Axx-AKxx-x, or so, a six-loser 15-count plus a stiff, to make slam.

Give Responder a nine-count, and Opener can have as light as 13 HCP's with a stiff.

How often are these slams found???

[benlessard]

the number of tricks a declarer make (and how high he should bid rely on these things)




Controls. (stopping opponent cashing tricks before yours or to enable you to discard losers)





Source of tricks


long suits.

Ruffs

Pure power HCP & spots wasted values






and others tactics

leads , communications ,finesse endplays ruff-n sluff looser on loser etc.




IMHO understanding of long suit is where experienced bidders have an edge over average players.


average palyers often based their judgment too much on HCP and extra trumps and Ruffing power then long suit power.



Example ive seen often


Axx
jxxx
akxxx
x

1h ----pass---- 4c splinter yurk!!

To not bid 2d with that hand show a real lack of bridge understanding

etablishing the values (from a full trick to completly worthless) of the 5th diamond is what make the difference between average and good players.

its not that Long suit source of tricks is more important then ruffing its just that its the most overlooked and often its in direct relation with the value of the stiff clubs

xx
AKQXX
Qjxx
xx

xx
AKQxx
Qjx
xxx

xxx
AKQxx
qx
qxxx

xx
AKQxx
x
Axxxx

xxx
AKQxx
x
Axxx


Its not an easy matters to find wasted values or to know how many clubs will i be able to ruff or to how many spades can i discard


But my experienced tell me that ...


An average player will often prefer to be short in diamond and long in clubs to score many ruffs he will like to discards spades on the k of diamond . He will prefer to have 5521 then 5431 with 3 in partner suits.

A stronger player will try to see the hand as a whole and understand the values of q in partners long suit. He will see useless shortness or trumps extravaganza. He will see that 1 discard is often not enough


Example

op pass all the way


1s--2d--2h--3h-- ???

Here they will cue with a diamond stiff instead of Qx

They will underestimate the importance of the possibilty of establishing spades or diamonds and focus too much on ruffing power.


But when bad trumps break come, overruff trump promotion or when they have to ruff with high trumps (and have trump loser later). They say its bad luck.