[ochinko]

In the SAYC realm, silent opps, new partner, not many agreements, is this a possible or an impossible bidding?

1♣ - 1♥ - 3NT

[mikeh]

In standard bidding theory this shows something like Ax x AJx AKQxxxx

in essence: a solid, long ♣ suit, expecting to take 9 tricks if they don't run your suit first... ie playing you for 5th round control, or better, of ♥. You might fudge with KQx x Ax AKQxxxx etc... where you actually need a little extra help from dummy or the opps on lead... but this is the general hand type.

I have seen players rebid 3N on balanced 19 counts.... shudder.... if the hand is good enough to bid that way, upgrade it to a 2N opener.. otherwise jump to 2N over 1♥... which is not a sign of weakness

[Walddk]

It's standard to rebid 3NT with a solid minor and quick tricks outside responder's major, and it denies a fit.

Ax
x
Axx
AKQxxxx

is the ideal hand.

Roland

[Free]

3NT rebid is not 19hcp (like some think), it's a solid minor and maximum hand, without a ♥ fit. So yes, it's a possible bidding.

[P_Marlowe]

Yes, it is.

The standard meaning was given.

An alternative meaning, would be a
splinter bid, certainly not part of SAYC,
altough even the standard meaning is
not SAYC.
3S shows a unspecifiv void, 3NT would be
a sapde splinter.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: What ever it means, it should show a very well
defined hand type.

[Walddk]

P_Marlowe, on Jul 24 2006, 11:32 PM, said:

3S shows a unspecifiv void, 3NT would be
a sapde splinter.

I have never heard about this interpretation. Are you sure you don't confuse it with a *response* to 1♥?

1♥ - 3♠/3NT

This sequence is indeed often played as an unspecified singleton (3♠) and a spade singleton or void (3NT).

Roland

[Winstonm]

Don't know who wins the bet, but I'm with all the rest that 3N denies a fit and shows a long, solid minor with good outside controls.

[neilkaz]

3NT shows a solid minor with good outside controls and may be gambling just a bit on making it. It is normally better to jump to 3NT with hands that are going to bid it almost certainly later anyhow, than to give help the opps pinpoint a lead by making another call first.

.. neilkaz ..

[SoTired]

playing Kokish... the 1m, then 3N hand falls between the 3N opener and 2C, then 3N. 1m, then 3N is about 7.5 to 8 tricks.

[HeartA]

Walddk, on Jul 24 2006, 03:03 PM, said:

It's standard to rebid 3NT with a solid minor and quick tricks outside responder's major, and it denies a fit.

Ax
x
Axx
AKQxxxx

is the ideal hand.

Roland

Depending on status of the match, my 3N rebid could be weaker, such as Ax, x, Qxx, AKQxxxx, expecting pd to have one trick.

[the hog]

As stated, 3N should show a solid m and an outside trick or 2, not necessarily Aces. What was the bet?

[Flame]

ochinko, on Jul 24 2006, 02:32 PM, said:

In the SAYC realm, silent opps, new partner, not many agreements, is this a possible or an impossible bidding?

1♣ - 1♥ - 3NT

I general an opening bid could have a game opposite a 1H response therefore 3NT is definetly possible the only question is what it mean and you have heard the std meaning. I'll give a more extreme bid to explain what i mean. 1NT- 5♥, is this a possible bid in sayc ? yes slam is possilbe so it must be a possible bid although this doesnt mean i know what i mean.

[FrancesHinden]

Free, on Jul 24 2006, 09:18 PM, said:

3NT rebid is not 19hcp (like some think), it's a solid minor and maximum hand, without a ♥ fit. So yes, it's a possible bidding.

In stone-age basic weak NT Acol (not SAYC) a 1NT opening is 12-14, a 1NT rebid 15-16, a 2NT rebid 17-18 and a 3NT rebid 19. Most keen players have changed to the rather more sane 12-14/15-17/18-19 and uses 3NT as described here, but you will still find plenty of club players (and old textbooks) describing the balanced 19-count meaning.

[whereagles]

I have it defined as solid suit + 1 side trick (A or K) in my pet system. With 2 side tricks we open a strong two (via a polish-style 1♣).

[P_Marlowe]

Walddk, on Jul 24 2006, 05:18 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Jul 24 2006, 11:32 PM, said:

3S shows a unspecifiv void, 3NT would be
a sapde splinter.

I have never heard about this interpretation. Are you sure you don't confuse it with a *response* to 1♥?

1♥ - 3♠/3NT

This sequence is indeed often played as an unspecified singleton (3♠) and a spade singleton or void (3NT).

Roland

Hi Roland,

no, but I agree, your given seq. has something to do
with the schema.
Ron Klinger sugessted to use the same splinter
raises as opener, when partner reponds with 1M
to a minor opening.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[SoTired]

I play 2-tiered splinters. 3oM is a 10-12hcp anonymous splinter, whereas direct double-jump-shift is a 13-15 hcp actual splinter. There is one ambiguity. 1H 3S = 10-12 anon splinter, 1H 3N = 13-15 spade splinter.

[ritong]

hi there:-)

my five cents for that one:
1m pass 1M pass 3NT represents a flat & fitted hand, with which opener intended to rebid 2NT, so 18/19 balanced.
most probably a huge majority of pairs have a way to show flat fit, although i like this solution because it allows to stay in 3NT with two balanced hands, and it leaves room for responder to launch control checking at the four level if he wants to.
it looks like space consuming proceed, but it establishes fit and defines openers structure & strength with maximum speed.
bad side is it makes it more difficult to find a better lateral fit, and concerning the minor strong one suiter, frenchies play a constraining 2♣/2♦ strong opening arsenal which deals with this handtype.
to answer initial post, i do not recommend to use that with a new partner:p

[Dwingo]

One partner insisted that we play 1m pass 1M pass 3NT as a regular rebid of 2NT 18-19 hand but with 3 card Major support and 3 aces.

It helped us bid some thin slams on control rich hands and we had reasonable success whenever we held that combination.

[helene_t]

Dwingo, on Jul 26 2006, 08:17 AM, said:

One partner insisted that we play 1m pass 1M pass 3NT as a regular rebid of 2NT 18-19 hand but with 3 card Major support and 3 aces.

It helped us bid some thin slams on control rich hands and we had reasonable success whenever we held that combination.

But if you rebid 2NT, can't you describe uch a hand in the follow-up? I see two disadvantages of your approach:
- If responder has only 4 of his major but some slam interest if there is a minor suit fit, he doesn't know what to do. He might be better placed after a space-saving 2NT (or maybe even better: 2♦ as Ben (I think) plays it).
- You help the defense by describing declarer's (if responder pass 3NT) hand so accurately.

As for the question of the thread: Not sure if the expert meaning of 3NT is SAYC. SAYC is a vanilla bidding system. I think it depends more on partner's knowledge of bidding theory than on the system you play.

[DWM]

I play 1x - 1y -

2NT as 18-19 bal with 3 card support for P
3NT as 18-19 bal without 3 card support for P.

Would shave off a point or two for 3NT with a long running minor.