[Walddk]

Let me start by emphasizing that I am not accusing anyone, and I cannot point to any specific incidents, but it would be nice to have a debate regarding doping in bridge.

The Floyd Landis case in the Tour de France has made me raise this topic, and it would be nice to hear your view on doping in bridge. You may for example want to answer the following 3 questions:

1. Would any drug (or blood transfusion) make you a better bridge player?

2. Would any drug (or blood transfusion) enhance your stamina and consequently
give you better results?

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

My own answers are:

1. No. You are as good or bad as you are. No drug can help you improve your game.

2. Yes, and that could well be a factor in long events. You will make fewer mistakes when it matters, because you are able to concentrate longer than your non-doped opponents of the same skill level - hence making fewer silly mistakes.

3. Yes indeed. Sleeping pills, marihuana, cocaine, etc. will surely not be beneficial to your game.

Feel free to add other aspects.

Roland

[mike777]

Human enhancement at all levels is finally really creaping into the everyday human race disucssion.

Not just chemicals/drugs but machine implants of all kinds are going to be a huge discussion. My bet is everyone will just put their heads in the sand and not try and discuss this big issue but try pretend we should only discuss a few drugs that hit the news!

Example: What machine implants will be allowed and which forbidden in bridge?
Which memory enhancing drugs will be allowed and which forbidden?

[awm]

Many bridge players make frequent use of caffeine. I have several partners who aren't able to play for a whole session without a coffee, much less through a long multi-day event! Personally I prefer soda, but the need to remain awake and alert throughout is a common one. Sugar also helps with this.

On a more serious note, apparently college students have started making use of ritalin as a performance-enhancing drug. For those unfamiliar, this is a drug often prescribed for attention deficit disorder, and it helps people to concentrate over long periods. Students for whom the drug is not prescribed have been using it. I see no reason to believe this drug wouldn't help with bridge for much the same reasons.

[hotShot]

Well i think this is a serious problem. There are doping cases in chess, why should we thnik bridge is free of it?

There are drugs to
-enhance the ability to concentrate
-help you keep your temper after a faulty board
-enhance your stamina
-help you relax between the days of a multi day event.

Just think of a evening session after dinner when 60+ boards have been played in previous sessions.
Winning a few boards while all the others are still busy digesting. This can make a difference.

To answer your questions:
1. Drugs might help you to play more boards the best you can.
2. There are resons to loose concentration even in short matches, anything that helps you to regain that contentration will help.
3. Any pill that has a "don't drive warning" can reduce your ability to play bridge too.

[luke warm]

Walddk, on Jul 27 2006, 04:17 PM, said:

1. Would any drug (or blood transfusion) make you a better bridge player?

absolutely... adam gave one example... and i disagree that cocaine would be harmful to one's bridge... it is a performance enhancing drug (ask l.t.), but the jury's out as to whether this is for physical endeavors only

Quote

2. Would any drug (or blood transfusion) enhance your stamina and consequently give you better results?

definitely

Quote

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

[DrTodd13]

There are any number of drugs that improve mental performance. I briefly tried to find the name of the newsgroup but I couldn't but I do remember a few years back sorta following a newsgroup where people were reporting the results of experimenting on themselves with a bunch of different drugs. They would give subjective impressions of how they felt along with timings of several tasks that measure mental alertness. These people were frankly pretty scary with what they were doing. Large quantities of herbs and chemicals and sometimes they would report bizarre side-effects.

Here's a thought puzzle for you. It is not a huge effect but some still claim that ginkgo biloba will enhance mental performance. Could you get in trouble for having it in your blood stream? Does it make a difference if you take tablets with the active ingredient condensed or whether you chew on the leaves all day. Can or should they be able to regulate what you eat? Athletes watch their diets and probably take all kinds of "natural" vitamin supplements. I find the decision as to what they allow you to consume and don't allow you to consume to be pretty arbitrary. I say get rid of all doping regulations and let them all dope. I want to see what a human body can do when aided by the full power of mind and science.

[mrdct]

luke warm, on Jul 27 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

Quote

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

I know of several players who would be completely ineffective unless under the influence of alcohol and have major difficulties being competitive when playing in tournaments where alcohol is not allowed at the table.

[Codo]

DrTodd13, on Jul 28 2006, 09:10 AM, said:

I say get rid of all doping regulations and let them all dope. I want to see what a human body can do when aided by the full power of mind and science.

I think this is a very short sighted statement.

To have the full benefit in using doping, you better start while you are a kid. So you basically say, that it is okay to try different dangerous medincines on kids who are not able to see all the advantages and disadvantages.

And there are many disadvantages if you see how these drugs may ruin your life.

[Walddk]

mrdct, on Jul 28 2006, 08:08 AM, said:

luke warm, on Jul 27 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

Quote

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

I know of several players who would be completely ineffective unless under the influence of alcohol and have major difficulties being competitive when playing in tournaments where alcohol is not allowed at the table.

The same goes for smoking. I am pretty sure I'm right when I claim that nowhere are you allowed to smoke in the room. This has created problems for many nicotine addicts.

As we have seen during many vugraph presentations, this results in frequent and long breaks. Long, because in many places you must leave the building in order to get a cigarette. These breaks are known as bathroom breaks, but we know what they mean.

Roland

[mike777]

Walddk, on Jul 28 2006, 01:53 AM, said:

mrdct, on Jul 28 2006, 08:08 AM, said:

luke warm, on Jul 27 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

Quote

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

I know of several players who would be completely ineffective unless under the influence of alcohol and have major difficulties being competitive when playing in tournaments where alcohol is not allowed at the table.

The same goes for smoking. I am pretty sure I'm right when I claim that nowhere are you allowed to smoke in the room. This has created problems for many nicotine addicts.

As we have seen during many vugraph presentations, this results in frequent and long breaks. Long, because in many places you must leave the building in order to get a cigarette. These breaks are known as bathroom breaks, but we know what they mean.

Roland

Is this an argument to bring back...smoking, drinking and eating in ALL forms at the table?

Or an argument to end social bridge in all forms

This post has been edited by mike777: 2006-July-28, 01:33

[Walddk]

mike777, on Jul 28 2006, 09:31 AM, said:

Walddk, on Jul 28 2006, 01:53 AM, said:

mrdct, on Jul 28 2006, 08:08 AM, said:

luke warm, on Jul 27 2006, 05:55 PM, said:

Quote

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

I know of several players who would be completely ineffective unless under the influence of alcohol and have major difficulties being competitive when playing in tournaments where alcohol is not allowed at the table.

The same goes for smoking. I am pretty sure I'm right when I claim that nowhere are you allowed to smoke in the room. This has created problems for many nicotine addicts.

As we have seen during many vugraph presentations, this results in frequent and long breaks. Long, because in many places you must leave the building in order to get a cigarette. These breaks are known as bathroom breaks, but we know what they mean.

Roland

Is this an argument to bring back...smoking, drinking and eating in ALL forms at the table?

Or an argument to end social bridge in all forms

Stating facts whether one likes them or not. Nothing hurts like the truth. As far as I know it's still allowed to chew on one of Mike Hargreaves' awful Canadian chocolate bars.

Roland

[whereagles]

My national bridge federation has just adopted the country's general doping legislation. I was sent a list of over 500(!!) substances that I could not use in competition. And worse, I didn't even know what the hell those things were.

However, I did look for "cafeine" in the list twice and was quite relieved when I couldn't find it

[mikeh]

[quote name='Walddk' date='Jul 28 2006, 02:44 AM'] Or an argument to end social bridge in all forms [/QUOTE]
Stating facts whether one likes them or not. Nothing hurts like the truth. As far as I know it's still allowed to chew on one of Mike Hargreaves' awful Canadian chocolate bars.

Roland [/quote]
Ouch!

Roland, they are 'nanaimo bars', and they are definitley NOT performance enhancing

[fred]

As an ex-smoker of 1.5 years and a person who chews nicotine gum constantly regardless of whether I am playing bridge or not, I can confirm that nicotine is good for my bridge.

The main reason for this (I think) is because having nicotine in my system allows me to avoid the effects of withdrawl.

Besides that, I am told that nicotine is a stimulant that is good for concentration. I have no idea if this effect is meaningful as far as improved bridge performance for me is concerned.

I generally only drink coffee in the morning, but if I am playing bridge and feeling tired I will sometimes have a coffee in the middle of the day or at night. Many bridge players use coffee this way (ie for performance enchancing purposes).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[DrTodd13]

Codo, on Jul 27 2006, 10:49 PM, said:

DrTodd13, on Jul 28 2006, 09:10 AM, said:

I say get rid of all doping regulations and let them all dope.  I want to see what a human body can do when aided by the full power of mind and science.

I think this is a very short sighted statement.

To have the full benefit in using doping, you better start while you are a kid. So you basically say, that it is okay to try different dangerous medincines on kids who are not able to see all the advantages and disadvantages.

And there are many disadvantages if you see how these drugs may ruin your life.

I don't believe that it is true that you need to start these drugs in childhood. With regards to children, I would not advocate experimenting with children but it is up to each parent to decide what is best for their child. If a drug could make your kids smarter and the risks were negligible then I think you'd have parents lining up around the block.

[DJNeill]

Hi Fred,

<OT>Congrats on quitting smoking!</OT>

Thanks,
Dan

[joshs]

awm, on Jul 27 2006, 04:27 PM, said:

Many bridge players make frequent use of caffeine. I have several partners who aren't able to play for a whole session without a coffee, much less through a long multi-day event! Personally I prefer soda, but the need to remain awake and alert throughout is a common one. Sugar also helps with this.

On a more serious note, apparently college students have started making use of ritalin as a performance-enhancing drug. For those unfamiliar, this is a drug often prescribed for attention deficit disorder, and it helps people to concentrate over long periods. Students for whom the drug is not prescribed have been using it. I see no reason to believe this drug wouldn't help with bridge for much the same reasons.

Ritalin is a wierd drug. Prior to puberty it acts as a downer and is used on overly hyperactive kids. After puberty it has the reverse effect and acts as a stimulent....

[akhare]

This is kind of tangential to the discussion, but I wonder how the body's naturally produced stimulants affect performance at the bridge table.

In this case, the reference is specifically to endorphins and possibly adrenaline. To put things in perspective, I once won the district level NAOP champhionships literally right after running a marathon (no, I am not making this up -- I had someone fill in a couple of hands for me while I made it to the club). Of course, in this case one might argue that it can be attributed to other factors that might have affected the opponents (running == sweat -- I will leave the rest to imagination ).

On a related note, I have noticed that low blood sugar levels that result from strenuous long runs can cause you to make some bizarre decisions and play (as my partner will testify). Of course, it's always handy to have an excuse for some really stupid brain dead play ...

[dogsbreath]

Hi
..maybe the event determines wether benefit would be obtained from drug-taking. In Ireland it considered madness or sheer bravado to play a Mixed Pairs event without prior liberal application of alcohol.

Rgds Dog

[DrTodd13]

akhare, on Jul 28 2006, 09:37 AM, said:

This is kind of tangential to the discussion, but I wonder how the body's naturally produced stimulants affect performance at the bridge table.

In this case, the reference is specifically to endorphins and possibly adrenaline. To put things in perspective, I once won the district level NAOP champhionships literally right after running a marathon (no, I am not making this up -- I had someone fill in a couple of hands for me while I made it to the club). Of course, in this case one might argue that it can be attributed to other factors that might have affected the opponents (running == sweat -- I will leave the rest to imagination ).

On a related note, I have noticed that low blood sugar levels that result from strenuous long runs can cause you to make some bizarre decisions and play (as my partner will testify). Of course, it's always handy to have an excuse for some really stupid brain dead play ...

I doth testify!