[Poky]

MP. All love.

4♥ 4NT*
5♦ 5NT!
6♦ 6♥
???

* RKCB
! Ask 4 kings

♠x
♥AQ10xxxx
♦-
♣K9xxx

[mikeh]

What do we know about partner's hand?

Actually, quite a lot.

We have all the keycards (that is the normal requirement for 5N)

He lacks a longish solid suit: no AKQJ(x) or AKQxx... else he'd know that we could probably win 13 tricks with the long ♥ suit, his other 2 aces and our announced K.

He was interested in asking for Kings, yet signed off after we showed 1. He couldn't expect 3... even 2 would be weird... but we can infer that he would have bid grand had we shown 2.

That suggests that he has two suits which would serve as a source of winners IF we delivered the King.. if we held 2 kings, at least one of them would fill in his suit.

So he may have something like AQJx Kx AQJxx Ax


A trump lead, which we can expect against a grand, will leave us needing 3-3 ♣

And he might be AQJx Kx AQJx Axx and now we have 3 ♣ to get rid of... we are not in a good spot if we bid grand.

If he has either of these hands, 6N may play ok, but I will stay with 6♥... there are other possible hand types where 6♥ makes 13 tricks and 6N makes 12... and I am NOT bidding 7♥.

The final and not insignificant point is that this is one of those hands on which discipline and partnership trust dictate that you accept the possibility that you have missed a good contract. Learning to stay within the limits of your methods is an essential element of good bridge... everybody gets bad boards occasionally without doing anything wrong... trying to bid the best spot every hand is a recipe for disaster.

[joshs]

Actually when you showed 2 keycards and only have 1, its hard to say if we have all the controls....

[mikeh]

joshs, on Jul 24 2006, 06:17 PM, said:

Actually when you showed 2 keycards and only have 1, its hard to say if we have all the controls....

oooops... I glossed over the response to 4N.... I hope it was a typo else my analysis looks weaker than usual

[mike777]

joshs, on Jul 24 2006, 06:17 PM, said:

Actually when you showed 2 keycards and only have 1, its hard to say if we have all the controls....

LOL LMAO ROFL

These expert players like Josh are so picky...heck so you only have 1..that is close to 2 keycards! How exact does partner expect us to respond?

[Poky]

joshs, on Jul 25 2006, 12:17 AM, said:

Actually when you showed 2 keycards and only have 1, its hard to say if we have all the controls....

Sorry. My fault. The right response to 4NT is 5♦, obviously.

[the hog]

Don't you have a way of showing 1KC and a void, Poky? We would bid 6D in response to 4NT.

[Free]

Pass, I don't know who I'm playing with...

[Walddk]

The_Hog, on Jul 25 2006, 10:22 AM, said:

Don't you have a way of showing 1KC and a void, Poky? We would bid 6D in response to 4NT.

The Hog is right. A common treatment is to jump to the 6-level in the suit where you are void if you have an odd number of key cards. 5NT with 2 and a "useful" void.

Roland

[Poky]

The_Hog, on Jul 25 2006, 09:22 AM, said:

Don't you have a way of showing 1KC and a void, Poky? We would bid 6D in response to 4NT.

Nope. This pair was playing pretty simply methods. Neither the 5♠ bid would have been an ask for the ♥Q.

[whereagles]

hum.. there might be a club hole, so, in absence of more info, I'll pass. 7♥ is a "top-or-bottom" bid which is warranted in desperate situations only.

[Winstonm]

In the system played, we simply don't have the equipment necessary to bid the grand if it is there. When you run out of precise bids, it is better to play the small slam than attempt to second guess a grand. Bidding 6N has a little more merit at MPs, as partner only needs one AK combination for it to be cold and with a hand such as Kx, AQxx, Axx type, a trump lead puts you back into needing a finesse or 3/3 clubs so you might as well play 6N.

However, for partnership harmony, the best move is to pass. The opponents don't always find the killing lead.

[kenrexford]

Partner's 5NT was a grand slam move. I am not sure why I answered this. Pass has one merit to it -- if 7H makes, partner's assured tanking guarantees a reversal of the contract back to 6H.

Thus, I somewhat object to the auction. I would bid 7H after 5NT and avoid this problem. I hold exactly the type of hand partner's 5NT push was designed to discover.

[Joe de Balliol]

kenrexford, on Jul 25 2006, 09:45 AM, said:

Partner's 5NT was a grand slam move. I am not sure why I answered this. Pass has one merit to it -- if 7H makes, partner's assured tanking guarantees a reversal of the contract back to 6H.

Thus, I somewhat object to the auction. I would bid 7H after 5NT and avoid this problem. I hold exactly the type of hand partner's 5NT push was designed to discover.

I agree with this. Partner, by bidding 5N, surely has SAK and CA, and is looking for grand - it's possible there's a slow club loser, but what the hell. 7H from me.

[bearmum]

Poky, on Jul 25 2006, 07:57 AM, said:

MP. All love.

4♥ 4NT*
5♦ 5NT!
6♦ 6♥
???

* RKCB
! Ask 4 kings

♠x
♥AQ10xxxx
♦-
♣K9xxx

I think I am missing something ----
Partner bid 4NT (RKCB) after I opened 4♥ ( which IMHO should promise an 8 card ♥ suit ) and I showed1 or 4 key cards ( and in light of the 4♥opener SHOULD be only 1 KC) - then in response to p's king ask I showed ONE K outside the ♥ suit.
UNLESS you and P have a way of showing the void over the 4NT--and from the 5♦ response I presume is not possible then ALL you can do is PASS the 6♥------ because I believe PARTNER is in charge after his 4NT bid !!!!

[pclayton]

bearmum, on Jul 30 2006, 04:12 AM, said:

Poky, on Jul 25 2006, 07:57 AM, said:

MP. All love.

4♥ 4NT*
5♦ 5NT!
6♦ 6♥
???

* RKCB
! Ask 4 kings

♠x
♥AQ10xxxx
♦-
♣K9xxx

I think I am missing something ----
Partner bid 4NT (RKCB) after I opened 4♥ ( which IMHO should promise an 8 card ♥ suit ) and I showed1 or 4 key cards ( and in light of the 4♥opener SHOULD be only 1 KC) - then in response to p's king ask I showed ONE K outside the ♥ suit.
UNLESS you and P have a way of showing the void over the 4NT--and from the 5♦ response I presume is not possible then ALL you can do is PASS the 6♥------ because I believe PARTNER is in charge after his 4NT bid !!!!

Not quite.

5N relinquishes captaincy from the 4N bidder. It sends a message that says "we have all of the key cards and the trump Queen, but I can't bid 7. Tell me about your Kings. However, if you can count 13 tricks, go ahead and bid it" .

[mike777]

Poky, on Jul 24 2006, 04:57 PM, said:

MP. All love.

4♥ 4NT*
5♦ 5NT!
6♦ 6♥
???

* RKCB
! Ask 4 kings

♠x
♥AQ10xxxx
♦-
♣K9xxx

As a side note is opening this hand 4H in first seat with both pairs NV winning bridge at MP?

I would have just opened it 1H but willing to listen and learn. I would think making the opp guess is good bridge but making an unpassed partner guess what we open 4H on is not good bridge?

[bid_em_up]

As I was contemplating what I would bid, I think my vote for pass ended up as a vote for 6N. On the given auction, I would pass, but since it is matchpoints, I would at least give some consideration to 6N but partner should have bid it instead of 6H whenever 6N is making, I will trust him and pass.

I would not open this hand 4♥. I probably dont open it at all. To each their own.

[keylime]

I do not open this hand 4♥. I start with 1♥ because of the tremendous potential for trick-taking.

With regards to the auction, since no agreements are for the void, I strongly feel the KC bidder is the captain, because you're ALREADY SELF-LIMITED yourself at 4♥. Therefore all probes must come from the unlimited hand.

[Double !]

Does the Captaincy Principle apply here? I think it does and that, since you chose to open this hand 4H (not sure that this is my choice: how many zars? about 31?), you need to accept the fact that partner took over and placed the contract. Granted that partner is not going to expect this type of hand from you.

DHL