[kgr]

Scoring: MP

---

1NT-(P)-2♣-(DBL)
2♦-(3♣)-3♠-(P)
3NT-All pass

1NT: 15-17
2♣: stayman, but can be weak 5-4 M or limit 5-4 M; first transfer then a new suit would be GF.
DBL: lead directing
2♦: no special agreements after DBL: no 4-card M
3♠: undiscussed after opp bidding (wouls show limit without opp bidding)
...Do you agree with the bidding on this hand?

[mikeh]

I agree with the bidding within the context of your methods.

It is too dangerous for S to pass 3♣, since there is no reason to play this pass as showing any values. Thus North will have to defend 3♣ undoubled on hands on which either double or bidding is better.

It would be nice, on this hand, to have the agreement than double of 3♣ is takeout but I don't see why that should be the case, especially at matchpoints: it may well be a good imp style... double suggesting bidding on but convertable by North. Here, at mps, one wants to be able to make aggressive penalty doubles of partscores on hands that would never dream of playing for a penalty at imps.

So, absent an agreement that double could be this hand (thus partner pulls more often than not), I think you have to gamble with 3♠.

Partner may hold the dreaded 2=3=5=3 with wasted ♣ cards... that's life... and the opps will have earned their good board.

OTOH, partner may be 3=2=5=3 and have xxx of ♣ and be able to aggressively upgrade on the basis of your presumed short ♣ and you earn an equally well deserved good board.

[SoTired]

I would pass 3C, giving a chance for opener to dbl if opener holds 4 clubs. 3S is a GF. (BTW, I assume you don't play Smolen). South only has 7 hcp and at best a 5-3 spade fit. If opener can't dbl 3C and only has 2s, 3N is not going to go well. Even if opener has 3s, defending 3CX may be more profitable than 4S. (vul is unknown).

[kenrexford]

This auction screams for a delayed takeout (high offense to defense) double. I really want partner to play 3D, and double gets me there.

This double should probably show something like this hand. If partner holds even four good diamonds, 3D might be superior to 3S. If partner bids 3H after my double, I expect 3-3 and pull to 3S. If partner converts the double to penalties, I lead a top spade.

An "I got them" double pays too frequently. I am marked for two or at best three clubs, a flat hand, and weak when I even consider a solo penalty double. Too rare.

[Free]

I would just transfer to ♠ and pass.

But since you have a way to show a weak hand with 5♠-4♥ (I guess if they don't intervene you now bid 2♠?) starting with 2♣ is probably ok. However, I don't agree with your 3♠ bid: this WILL show a strong hand to partner, and that's not what you want (I think you only want to try for game if partner has a fit in a Major, but never in NT). Dunno if your doubles in this situation are takeout or penalty, but if you have takeout doubles available here, use it! You have ♦ tollerance and decent values.

[hrothgar]

Interesting hand:

I like the 2♣ bid response. At the table, I'd respond 2♣, intending to raise 2M to 3M and advance a 2♥ over 2♦.

I think that the hand revalues when RHO shows clubs strength. (BTW, what did 3♣ show? Could RHO have shown a club suit earlier in the auction? If so, the decision to introduce clubs now almost guaruntees a Spade fit)...

Torn between a takeout double or 3♣ and 3♠
I lean towards 3♠

[kenrexford]

As an aside, Opener is free to raise, such that the auction, after a takeout double, could be P-3H-P-3S-P-4S. He will certainly expect me to have some decent values and club shortage.

Double fails when Opener has two hearts and three spades, with diamond preference to bidding 3S, admittedly, but only if 4S makes. This is less than clear, adding in the risk of duplicated club values and little help for my hearts, taps, and the like.

[willow23]

I would go with a transfer to ♠ bid... then to invite bid 3♥. Partner should get the idea...

If opps bid ♣..I prefer a dbl showing shortness in ♣..Then p can bid 3♦, 3♥, 3♠ or convert to penalty...

I opt for leaving the stronger hand with the option...

The bidding above...is well filled with good intentions...again ..after that 3♣ bid ..I dbl..leaving partner with the option...without the majors ..if that is what the 2♦ mean...p should be able to punish 3♣ contract.

I know how opps can intefere in an innocent drop dead auction and leave p to wonder......but 2!c looking for a major and then 2♠.. if 2♦ reply to show 5/4 ..invitational an ok line.

[SoTired]

Wow, you guys bid alot with your 7 HCP.

[neilkaz]

This is a difficult situation. You have an invitational 54M hand. The club stiff is nice but you really cannot force to game after 2D as PD may have only 2 spades. The 3S bid is a game force to me and gives PD the option of 4S or 3NT. I'd prefer Smolen in this spot to transfer the contract back to him, but no big deal.

The 1NT opener if he plays the way I do and have seen recommended and lacks a a 4 card major, passes when he holds 4 clubs, bids 2D when he holds fewer clubs, thereby guaranteeing 4 or 5 D's. He redoubles 2C with 5 clubs, or with a strong 4 card holding.

Thus, here, opener should have 2 or 3 clubs and you know the opps have a fine fit.

What to do depends on your agreements, but most would play 3M as GF. In that case if you doubled you likely don't have a GF hand and want PD to do something intelligent (but good luck to him) if he has 5D he can bid 3D, if not he can pass and try 3Cx or bid 3M on 3 cards and then you play 3S here. If you pass, he can always reopen with a double if he wants and now you play 3S (unless he reopened 1D) Either way, without specific agreements, there's lots of guessing and it is clouded even more by the fact that if you have a strong hand, clubs may still not be stopped and a 7 card major game may be where you belong.

[mike777]

kgr, on Jul 19 2006, 11:50 AM, said:

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> QJxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> Axxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> xxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> x </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->
1NT-(P)-2♣-(DBL)
2♦-(3♣)-3♠-(P)
3NT-All pass

1NT: 15-17
2♣: stayman, but can be weak 5-4 M or limit 5-4 M; first transfer then a new suit would be GF.
DBL: lead directing
2♦: no special agreements after DBL: no 4-card M
3♠: undiscussed after opp bidding (wouls show limit without opp bidding)
...Do you agree with the bidding on this hand?

Great hand thanks for posting it.

1) Not sure what 3S here means for me, gulp! In fact not even sure if 3S would promise 5 spades, good grief! Am doing some Smolen hand on this auction?
2) I am pretty sure P does not have 4clubs and may even have 5 or 6 D. That gives the opp 9 or ten clubs!
3) Not sure what x would mean, but I would guess penalty for me not takeout.
4) Good grief what a tough hand, even if I call a time out, pull out my notes, I am not sure what to bid with this hand .
5) Since I do not even know the vul. the opp may be cold for 3clubs on this hand or down a bunch what a tough hand.
6) No one has mentioned it but even bidding 3D on this hand over 3clubs is possible given the fact I do not know what a 3h or 3s bid means, smolen, natural or what?

[willow23]

SoTired, on Jul 19 2006, 02:57 PM, said:

Wow, you guys bid alot with your 7 HCP.

Marty Bergen says it best in his book 'Points schmoints'...The hand works wonders with that ♣ singleton, opposite a nice major fit with p...who has at least 15 hcp:)

After opps show strength in !c ...even better...I am likely to get more aggressive...lol

[mike777]

It does seem x would be cooperative over 3clubs since I cannot have a club stack? But will partner take it that way? Darn those Opp darn you........

[kgr]

For those who think that 3♠ is forcing after this bidding let me repeat:

Quote

2♣: stayman, but can be weak 5-4 M or limit 5-4 M; first transfer then a new suit would be GF.

Having this agreement (probably not best, but this is what you play) don't you think that 3♠ cannot be forcing. Then I would have started with a transfer.
Let me add that we also don't paly smolen.
I direct DBL after RHO opps intervenes over 1NT we play as penalty. DBL in this position is undiscussed.
Having these agreements I would think that it is clear that 3♠ shows a 5=4 (weak or) limit hand? It will most probably not be a weak hand, because then a pass would be more likely.
(My partner also didn't see it this way. He did bid 3NT with ♠Axx. 4♠ would have made (I think +1) and 3NT was -2. And 3♣ would go -1.

[HeartA]

willow23, on Jul 19 2006, 03:29 PM, said:

After opps show strength in !c ...even better...I am likely to get more aggressive...lol

Not so sure, especially pd's clubs are before your RHO's. It became clear when pd bid 3N over 3S.

[lowerline]

kgr, on Jul 19 2006, 11:50 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

---

1NT-(P)-2♣-(DBL)
2♦-(3♣)-3♠-(P)
3NT-All pass

1NT: 15-17
2♣: stayman, but can be weak 5-4 M or limit 5-4 M; first transfer then a new suit would be GF.
DBL: lead directing
2♦: no special agreements after DBL: no 4-card M
3♠: undiscussed after opp bidding (wouls show limit without opp bidding)
...Do you agree with the bidding on this hand?

You have to do something after 3♣. A negative double would be nice, but I suppose double is for penalty. 3♠ is next best.
It is hard not to pass partner's 3NT (especially in matchpoints), though 4♦ might be the winner...

[Free]

willow23, on Jul 19 2006, 09:29 PM, said:

SoTired, on Jul 19 2006, 02:57 PM, said:

Wow, you guys bid alot with your 7 HCP.

Marty Bergen says it best in his book 'Points schmoints'...The hand works wonders with that ♣ singleton, opposite a nice major fit with p...who has at least 15 hcp:)

After opps show strength in !c ...even better...I am likely to get more aggressive...lol

Exactly, and Dbl is most flexible (p can have a 2-3-5-3 where you like to play in ♦), so much better than 3♠ imo.

[Codo]

In the context of the given system I liked the bidding till 3 Spade.

But if I had expect pd to pas or bid 4 Spade with his spade holding.

There are still two downsides for the 3 Spade bid:

1. Pd may not understand it, even if he should.

2. I believe, that pds 2 Diamond bid should show more then just no 4 card major.
He had the possibility to pass, to redouble, to bid 2 NT or to bid 2 Diamond with his hand (besides showing a major). So 2 Diamond should show 5 diamonds in my opinion, anything else is quite useless. And in that case, 3 Diamond had been a lesser gambling then 3 Spade.

[dogsbreath]

hi
15-17 opposite 7 with no known fit .. how many bids you guys make on this filth?
Rgds Dog

[hrothgar]

dogsbreath, on Jul 22 2006, 01:59 AM, said:

hi
15-17 opposite 7 with no known fit .. how many bids you guys make on this filth?
Rgds Dog

At least 2