[mr1303]

Hi all

There has been a committee meeting at the English Bridge Union, and it is now the policy that no England junior (U20 or U25) may commentate on any event involving other England juniors.

Failure to follow this will involve "indefinite suspension" from the squads.

[david_c]

I see. And presumably anyone who has participated in the open trials will similarly be barred from commentating in events involving the open team. No? Why not?

[Echognome]

I'm not really sure how I feel about this. To answer David's question, I would say the fundamental difference is that the EBU *IS* concerned with protecting the feelings of its junior squad. The open squad is all well established and I don't imagine the EBU would worry about protecting their them.

I think the shame of it is namely the familiarity junior commentators have with their fellow teammates' systems. They can certainly provide more in depth "color commentary" so to speak. At the same time, I guess the EBU doesn't want to deal with anything it might dub as a personal attack. Thus, rather than trying to adjudicate comments on a case by case basis, it deems it easier just to ban juniors commentating on each other. I can see why they chose this route, but I can also understand that a consequence of this is that we will miss out on having some very good commentators for certain events.

[FrancesHinden]

david_c, on Jul 7 2006, 11:05 AM, said:

I see. And presumably anyone who has participated in the open trials will similarly be barred from commentating in events involving the open team. No? Why not?

The "why not" is easy: I don't believe there have been any complaints about commentary from open trialists on events including the open team.

(I'm not saying I agree with their decision, by the way, just explaining it.)

[paulg]

Presumably they can still commentate on the Scottish juniors, a thought that some may consider scarier

Paul

[geller]

The commentators may sometimes say stuff that the commentees don't like, but the latter shouldn't get too upset, because, after all, they're still playing while the commentators are out of the event. :-)

[Walddk]

It's a delicate issue in many places around the world, and I know several commentators who decline to commentate on events where "friends" are on vugraph. The federations didn't bar them; their own decisions entirely.

BBO will obviously respect either, but it's a shame that we can't have local commentators (English in this case) who are familiar with the players and their systems.

Roland

[FrancesHinden]

Walddk, on Jul 7 2006, 01:58 PM, said:

BBO will obviously respect either, but it's a shame that we can't have local commentators (English in this case) who are familiar with the players and their systems.

Roland

I agree it's a shame, but you do have some English commentators who know the players and their systems - I've certainly seen a couple of recent ex-juniors commentating. (And I don't mean Jeffrey or me, who are ex-juniors but sadly not so recent).

Funnily enough I positively like to commentate on my friends, though I have noticed I have a tendency to find justifications for their poor results more than when people I don't know I playing.

[mycroft]

It would be interesting to know if this ban is for commenting at tables where compatriots are playing, or whether they can no longer do commentary at *any table of* the Rosenblum (for instance), just because one of the 180 tables has an English Junior playing with her Italian boyfriend.

It's probably very clear in the actual note; but if it is the latter, then any commentary is dangerous; what if someone happens to have taken a trip to Toronto, and is playing in the Easter Open Pairs? Oops, I didn't know that, and couldn't find out (because he didn't make the overalls, so didn't end up in any recap sheet that the commentator was able to see. Indefinate suspension (although I bet indefinate would be "short" in this case) time.

Michael.

[badderzboy]

Hmmm,

Would it not be reasonable for the commitee to suggest Juniors couldn't commentate on matches involving fellow UK juniors unless they have their permission to do so or alternatively to comment only on meaning of bids within their colleagues systems ie not on play or judgement issues which may cause offence.

The EBU minutes suggest some players were upset with vugraph comments by a fellow player.

A blanket ban appears heavy-handed does it not!

Steve

[hrothgar]

badderzboy, on Jul 7 2006, 07:27 PM, said:

A blanket ban appears heavy-handed does it not!

Depends on what your goal is?

One could argue that the EBU Selection Committee has a strong vested interest in avoiding conflict between potentially members of the Junior teams.

Case by case adjudication is certainly more flexible, however, it escalates the initial "offenses". Its bad enough when one junior feels that another is criticizing him "unjustly". However, implementing case by case adjudication would requite a formal petitioning process, accusations, defenses. I can see good reason why the Slection Committee would prefer to sidestep the whole issue...

In the best of all worlds, all the English Juniors might find a common sense of purpose and unify in attacking the idiots on the Committee...

[the saint]

Walddk, on Jul 7 2006, 12:58 PM, said:

It's a delicate issue in many places around the world, and I know several commentators who decline to commentate on events where "friends" are on vugraph. The federations didn't bar them; their own decisions entirely.

BBO will obviously respect either, but it's a shame that we can't have local commentators (English in this case) who are familiar with the players and their systems.

Roland

Don't worry boys and girls, I'm still here to save the day!!!

Or maybe not...

[mike777]

mr1303, on Jul 7 2006, 04:23 AM, said:

Hi all

There has been a committee meeting at the English Bridge Union, and it is now the policy that no England junior (U20 or U25) may commentate on any event involving other England juniors.

Failure to follow this will involve "indefinite suspension" from the squads.

Just finished reading an article on Fiona Brown and her dreams to make the English juniors in 2007.

She just finished 4th in the World's Mixed pairs and has won the Highland Congress in Scotland.

She comes across as a very intelligent young lady.

I just wonder where she gets the money to play bridge around the world full time at age 21. It appears she has yet to make an appearance at an NABC.

I fail to see why bridge magazines must put a red haired 21 year old wearing a striking blue/green dress on the cover of their issues. Is this really the way to attract people to our game?

[mr1303]

Fiona Brown. Can't say I've heard of her. Do you have a link to this article?

(I edit the EBU junior bridge magazine unbiddable, so it might be a good idea if I can get an interview with her)

Mark

[Walddk]

Fiona Brown is originally from Australia. That may be the reason why you haven't heard about her. You get a little info if you click on

http://tinyurl.com/nruds

Roland

P.S. I am not sure that this is the right forum since Fiona hasn't appeared on vugraph yet. Not a big deal, and I don't mind that we keep writing about her under "Vugraph Issues".

[Gerben42]

Anyway, I think one should treat the other selection groups (open, women, seniors) the same way then, not just the juniors. If I recall correctly there have been more problems with some comments on British Vugraph broadcasts that did NOT involve juniors...

I like to comment on friends on VG and I've also been asked several times by friends to try to be there when they are on. And you just don't burn someone to the ground on VG, regardless if you know the person or not.

In fact I'm quite sure that in my very first appearance on Vugraph even my best friends would have to search hard for positive comments After that it got better, though...

[Walddk]

When you appear on BBO vugraph, you are exposed to 100s, sometimes more than 1,000 pairs of eyes. Very few players are unable to get through a session without making an error or an unsuccessful judgement.

No matter what, they all deserve our respect (there is a reason why they are on VG and the commentators are not). The players have every right to expect to be treated fairly, and I think the vast majority of commentators goes about this in a civilised manner.

Yes, we have had a few unfortunate incidents in the past, and we do not take it lightly if we find that someone oversteps the line. "Feel free to disagree, but don't be rude" is what we expect every time.

Given the enormous amount of broadcasts we have, this is not a big issue.

Roland

[nickf]

fiona is an australian born junior now living in the UK. According to the profile on her in the latest issue of Australian Bridge, she helps to support herself by on-line sports betting. I *think* she may be also successfully playing on-line poker.

she hasnt played a whole lot of top level bridge in australia, a smattering of national junior title events I think, but most of the time she lived in australia and played bridge she was at school.

4th in the world mixed is impressive. She certainly has a good mentor in Hugh McGann.

nickf
sydney

[mrdct]

Have they defined what they mean by "commentate"? Are English juniors barred from writing articles on matches involving junior players? Are English juniors barred from discussing a vugraph match with a few people (be that online or otherwise)? What happens if and when BBO introduce multi-channeling of commentary - will they be allowed to sit in a virtual room and chat about a vugraph match with a few mates and anyone else who cares to listen?

Sounds like a typically stupid bridge administrator decsion.

[mrdct]

mike777, on Jul 11 2006, 08:26 PM, said:

I just wonder where she gets the money to play bridge around the world full time at age 21. It appears she has yet to make an appearance at an NABC.

I guess that living in the UK and having Hugh McGann as her boyfriend would open up a few doors to get a few decent games in Europe. Notwithstanding that, Fiona has been around the Australia youth bridge scene for several years and has won at least one national youth title that I'm aware of.

I'm all in favour of young attractive people being the face of bridge.