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1st hand:
2nd hand:
Assume it's IMP games and both vulnerable.
Are you a true Bergener?
#1
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Posted 2006-July-11, 23:08
You've agreed 2/1 with bergen things. Pard opened 1S, turn to you.
1st hand:
2nd hand:
Assume it's IMP games and both vulnerable.
1st hand:
2nd hand:
Assume it's IMP games and both vulnerable.
#2
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Posted 2006-July-11, 23:31
Might depend on circumstances. Isn't there an option of bidding 4♠ with neither hand?
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#3
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Posted 2006-July-11, 23:34
Not unusual with spades to bid one level lower than LOTT on many hands.
Often with no shortness.
It is fine to play full Bergen ..just make sure you know....full Bergen.....which does not mean ..bidding 4 level with all ten card fits.
I will repeat that Bergen and LOTT does not say bid 4 level with all ten card fits!
So to answer to your question, yes I bid to full Bergen, LOTT level on this hand....just know what it is.
Often with no shortness.
It is fine to play full Bergen ..just make sure you know....full Bergen.....which does not mean ..bidding 4 level with all ten card fits.
I will repeat that Bergen and LOTT does not say bid 4 level with all ten card fits!
So to answer to your question, yes I bid to full Bergen, LOTT level on this hand....just know what it is.
#4
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Posted 2006-July-11, 23:43
helene_t, on Jul 12 2006, 12:31 AM, said:
Might depend on circumstances. Isn't there an option of bidding 4♠ with neither hand?
Probably I shall list an option for "neither", which allows non-bergener vote:)
#5
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Posted 2006-July-11, 23:50
I would vote for neither.
Senshu
#6
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Posted 2006-July-12, 00:12
Neither.
1) Even 3S does not really
fit the bill.
I would settle for 2S.
2) 3S, although 4S is in the picture.
With kind regards
Marlowe
1) Even 3S does not really
fit the bill.
I would settle for 2S.
2) 3S, although 4S is in the picture.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#7
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Posted 2006-July-12, 01:58
1) 3♠
2) 4♠
2) 4♠
Alain
#8
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Posted 2006-July-12, 02:59
hand 1: no way
hand 2: perhaps, if the vibes at table are right. Under normal circumstances, nope.
hand 2: perhaps, if the vibes at table are right. Under normal circumstances, nope.
#9
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Posted 2006-July-12, 03:24
joker_gib, on Jul 12 2006, 08:58 AM, said:
1) 3♠
2) 4♠
2) 4♠
Yup
#10
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Posted 2006-July-12, 03:27
1. 3♠
2. This is too strong for 3♠ as I play it, so the choice would be a mixed raise or 4♠ and of these choices I prefer 4♠.
2. This is too strong for 3♠ as I play it, so the choice would be a mixed raise or 4♠ and of these choices I prefer 4♠.
#11
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Posted 2006-July-12, 05:08
1. 3♠
2. 3♣ (or whatever shows 6-9 or 6-7)
I don't like to bid 4♠ on any of the hands, since I don't have a shortness...
2. 3♣ (or whatever shows 6-9 or 6-7)
I don't like to bid 4♠ on any of the hands, since I don't have a shortness...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#12
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Posted 2006-July-12, 05:49
1> 3S this is a pail and I hope we do not get killed.
2. 4S I hope it makes and 3S is a close second choice.
With my lho holding perhaps the best hand at the table I think hand 1 exerts to most pressure. Hand 2 may be able to make 4S with some good fortune.
2. 4S I hope it makes and 3S is a close second choice.
With my lho holding perhaps the best hand at the table I think hand 1 exerts to most pressure. Hand 2 may be able to make 4S with some good fortune.
#13
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Posted 2006-July-12, 06:45
I think 3S is plenty on the first hand. If partner wants to contest their heart game he can do so. On the second hand I'm less sure. I guess I just bid 2S. I like partner to be confident I will produce a stiff if he has to decide at the five level what to do.
Bergen allows for a 4D bid to show a raise to 4S that is not complete trash, but I still want a singleton somewhere. Since I don't much play the Bergen style I looked this up (Better Bidding with Bergen, v1, page 41) and his examples of both the direct raise and the raise via 4D show stiffs. I would stick to this, regardless of how 4S might work out on these particular hands.
So mark me down for "neither".
Bergen allows for a 4D bid to show a raise to 4S that is not complete trash, but I still want a singleton somewhere. Since I don't much play the Bergen style I looked this up (Better Bidding with Bergen, v1, page 41) and his examples of both the direct raise and the raise via 4D show stiffs. I would stick to this, regardless of how 4S might work out on these particular hands.
So mark me down for "neither".
Ken
#14
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Posted 2006-July-12, 06:49
adhoc3, on Jul 12 2006, 12:08 AM, said:
You've agreed 2/1 with bergen things. Pard opened 1S, turn to you.
1st hand:
2nd hand:
Assume it's IMP games and both vulnerable.
1st hand:
2nd hand:
Assume it's IMP games and both vulnerable.
1. 3♠
2. 3♣
Why not involve partner in the decision of bidding 4♠?
#15
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Posted 2006-July-12, 07:40
Indeed, 3C on the second instead of my 2S. Not being a usual player of Bergen, I forgot.
Ken
#16
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Posted 2006-July-12, 09:06
I wouldn't bid 4S on either.
The second looks like a down-the-middle mixed raise (3C or 3D depending which way round you play Bergen). The first is either a pass or a pre-emptive 3S bid, depending on vulnerability.
The second looks like a down-the-middle mixed raise (3C or 3D depending which way round you play Bergen). The first is either a pass or a pre-emptive 3S bid, depending on vulnerability.
#17
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Posted 2006-July-12, 11:06
Thou shalt not blindly apply the Law on 5332 hands. 8 or 9 losers.
3 Spades on hand 1 seems good.
The second hand is more difficult to assess. If I feel pushy i would bid 4S at imps as it's approximately a 7-loser hand, but otherwise I might just invite. IMO, the 5th spade makes the hand one loser too good for a mixed raise. Change either hand to 5431 distro and I'm bidding 4.
DHL
3 Spades on hand 1 seems good.
The second hand is more difficult to assess. If I feel pushy i would bid 4S at imps as it's approximately a 7-loser hand, but otherwise I might just invite. IMO, the 5th spade makes the hand one loser too good for a mixed raise. Change either hand to 5431 distro and I'm bidding 4.
DHL
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#18
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Posted 2006-July-12, 11:10
Since this Topic asks if one "is a true Bergener?", how many out there are familiar with or have played Bergen's minor suit raise structure? How many play Bromad?
DHL
DHL
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#19
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Posted 2006-July-12, 11:10
Never 4S on hand one. For goodness sake, look at it. The question is do I bid 3S. My 3S "promises" and nothing in hcp. But of course, the type of game, MP or IMPS might factor into the equation, and vulnerability certainly will. I guess I will bid 3S most of the time, but pass is in the mix on occassion.
Hand 2 is also not 4S. This is a nice hand, with potential. Use some bid that investigates the correct level. However, I would not be upset at a partner who bid 4S on this one opposite me.
Hand 2 is also not 4S. This is a nice hand, with potential. Use some bid that investigates the correct level. However, I would not be upset at a partner who bid 4S on this one opposite me.
--Ben--
#20
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Posted 2006-July-12, 11:13
Double !, on Jul 12 2006, 12:10 PM, said:
Since this Topic asks if one "is a true Bergener?", how many out there are familiar with or have played Bergen's minor suit raise structure? How many play Bromad?
DHL
DHL
I play pretty close to full Bergen including Bromad and Bergen's version of Jacoby 2nt.
I Play CrissCross for minor suit raises.
FlipFlop in comp.