[Mr. Dodgy]

Playing with an 'expert' partner, whose profile stated SAYC the following disasters befell me. Please comment on the bidding.

1. I'm East...

Scoring: IMP

P-P-P-1♣
P-1♦-P-2♥
P-2♠-P-3♣
A

---

I wasn't sure whether 2♠ was asking for or showing stops. To my mind it should be asking. In any case, someone should bid 3NT. Who?


2. I'm North...

Scoring: IMP

1♣-1♦-X-1♥
2♣-2♥-3♣-3♦
P-P-X-A

---

3. I'm East...

Scoring: IMP

P-P-P-1♣
P-1♦-P-2♥
P-2♠-P-3♣
A

---

OK, so 3♣ is stetching a little, especially at this vulnerability...but...


4. I'm North...

Scoring: IMP

1♣-1♦-X-1♥
2♣-2♥-3♣-3♦
P-P-X-A

---

Isn't 3♣ Stayman here?


If you want to know more, just ask.


Thanks,


Justin aka MrDodgy

This post has been edited by Mr. Dodgy: 2006-July-01, 10:53

[hrothgar]

Hand 1:

Playing 2/1, bidding Diamonds and then Spades shows a strong hand.
Therefore, 3♣ would be forcing...

I suspect that your partner assumed that the same would hold true here
Many pairs use some kind of convenient low level forcing bid after a reverse (2NT as a puppet to 3♣ is popular)

Hand 2:

I prefer bidding 1S to rebidding clubs

Hand 3:

I don't mind the 3♣ opening, however, the 5♠ rebid is rather unilateral...

Hand 4:

3♣ is Stayman

[jillybean]

Hi MrD,

1. West should bid 3nt or show support for ♣

2. 1♠ (you cant have 5)

3. no comment my preempts are diabolical

4. Who knows, no agreement you are left to guess. (ah, Richard knows - its stayman )

jb

[Mr. Dodgy]

hrothgar, on Jul 1 2006, 11:46 AM, said:

Hand 1: 

Playing 2/1, bidding Diamonds and then Spades shows a strong hand.
Therefore, 3♣ would be forcing...

I suspect that your partner assumed that the same would hold true here

uh, evidently not

Ooops, I was East, not West. Original post corrected.

[plaur]

Hi,

Opinions from an intermediate:

A) Playing with my reg p 2♥ is gameforce. 2♠ is fourth suit forcing, showing slam interest. 3♣ just describing the hand further.

Did north rebid kjxx of clubs after partner made a negative double? That does not make sense. Support spades.

C) 3♣ alone red in second hand, imps should show at least 7½ tricks

D) Yes, without any agreements I would take 3♣ as stayman.

[Mr. Dodgy]

plaur, on Jul 1 2006, 11:58 AM, said:

Did north rebid kjxx of clubs after partner made a negative double? That does not make sense. Support spades.

No, South rebid his 6-card club suit after my NegX, so I raised. I wasn't terribly happy about 3♣, as I thought it was something of an underbid...thus I was happy to double next time around to show some extras. Maybe I should have just bid 5♣, but I felt that a double would give my partner a (second) chance to do something.

[plaur]

Mr. Dodgy, on Jul 1 2006, 12:05 PM, said:

No, South rebid his 6-card club suit after my NegX, so I raised.

Sorry, I got it upside down. I agree your x. I dont agree 2♣. I think that denies 4 spades. So, I agree your3♣.
The problem then is what to do over 3♦? You know p has at most 3 spades and short ♥'s. Opps found a heart fit but chose ♦'s so maybe partner has 2 ♥'s afterall. At the table I might pass or bid 4♣.
I dont like the double but then again I dont play many advanced doubles and this one would be penalty to me - a strong suggestion to partner NOT to compete any further. At MP's you can double their partscores more freely but at imps?

[Mr. Dodgy]

Agreed, I probably got #2 wrong. Upgrade and 3♦ instead of 3♣ would be better, and a double after agreeing a suit should generally be penalty, but I have some difficulty seeing how it really can be here - I have shown ♥s & ♠s with my NegX, and supported ♣s (rather weakly) with my raise...so I'm not holding much in the way of ♦s, especially considering the opponent's bidding and South's own holding there.

I tend to play DSIP Doubles by preference, showing extras and encouraging further competition (I'd just Pass here if I thought we were beating 3♦ - the gain from a penalty double is not likely to be great and the risk enormous), a treatment I should avoid with a pickup. Good Lesson though.

[kfgauss]

Your partner seems not to know how to bid and is basically at fault on all of the hands. You did make a few bids I would not have, though:

1. I'd rebid only 1H... if partner passes, you're quite high enough. No need to GF yet. Partner should rebid some number of notrump instead of 2S (asking), and certainly your 3C (the correct bid at that point, probably) was forcing.

2. Partner seems not to have understood that you showed 4-4 in the majors. Even so, you'd expect a 1S bid over 1H. Your bidding is perfect up until the double. I see no need for that, especially with what you expect to be a 10 card fit and only a singleton in their suit. Pass and 4C are both reasonable.

3. 3C is fairly aggressive, but it had no impact on partner's insane flyer thereafter, unless he took it as strong or some such. You should correct 5S to 6H immediately, though (and in fact possibly try for 7 given your ♣AK), as you definitely prefer partner's (presumably longer) hearts to his spades. It's partner's business that he made you choose at that level, and he must have a really good hand (which he doesn't).

4. 3C is stayman, but given your partner's previous actions, 4C isn't too surprising. Good thing you landed vaguely on your feet.

Andy

[kfgauss]

Mr. Dodgy, on Jul 1 2006, 05:43 PM, said:

Agreed, I probably got #2 wrong. Upgrade and 3♦ instead of 3♣ would be better, and a double after agreeing a suit should generally be penalty, but I have some difficulty seeing how it really can be here - I have shown ♥s & ♠s with my NegX, and supported ♣s (rather weakly) with my raise...so I'm not holding much in the way of ♦s, especially considering the opponent's bidding and South's own holding there.

I tend to play DSIP Doubles by preference, showing extras and encouraging further competition (I'd just Pass here if I thought we were beating 3♦ - the gain from a penalty double is not likely to be great and the risk enormous), a treatment I should avoid with a pickup. Good Lesson though.

You're right that by logic it can't really be pure penalty, but it should be passable. I wouldn't try it with 4 clubs in any case (nor with this pickup, or any other perhaps). Maybe a defensive 4-4-2-3 or a good 4-4-3-2 would be an appropriate hand.

Andy

[hatchett]

I would conclude that your 'expert' partner was nothing of the sort, since he made basic mistakes on every hand.

[barmar]

On #3, partner's 5♠ bid was insane. Preempts in 1st/2nd seat tend to deny 4-card majors, so what's the chance of having a good fit in ♠?

However, you also could have bid 5♥ over 5♦. It probably makes if the ♠K is in the slot.

On the other hand, it doesn't look like 5♦ was going to make, so this is a close decision. If the ♠K is offside, or South has ♥(J/9)xx and ♠Kx (so he can overruff the ♠) you go down. They may have found the par contract with their sacrifice.

[inquiry]

Your partner must have been a "BBO expert", sigh.. just hope it wasn't me... :-)

[neilkaz]

1) A jump shift by opener is supposed to be GF. You may be just a tad light for that, but I cannot really say I don't like 2H, although I'd bid 1H. However, your PD absolutely cannot drop you short of game and should make sure to play 3NT with both suits that aren't your's stopped. I would've left after this hand if I could unless PD appologized stating he spaced out and missed your GF jump. I don't like to respond to 1m with just a couple HCP so I also like to play that opener's 1 over 1 over 1 is forcing 1 round.

2) PD should be shot for never bidding spades after your negX when he has 4 of them. He should be shot again for passing what simply has to be a balancing double when it is clear that you have a fine black suit double fit. If I couldn't leave after this hand, I would pull the plug on my computer !!

3) Your 2nd seat preempt on this vul is a card short for me. However, here it should actually greatly aid your PD. How many spades and how many Hearts can he expect you to have for 3C ? So.. from his perspective, you cannot have 4 Spades, he doesn't need much if any help in Hearts so if he must bid he should bid 5H. However, I'd never dream of bidding 5H with his cards after your 3C since there's a real good chance to set 5D. There can be transportation problems in 5H if you are short. His 2 D losers may be matched by 2 of yours and that means 5H is in trouble and forcing the auction to 6Hx is insane. If I couldn't leave after this hand, I'd flip the circuit breaker in my house to off !!!

4) DUH.. 3C is Stayman here, or Puppet. I am amazed at how many on BBO seem to think there is a difference in the structure after 2C-2D-2N than after a direct 2N!
I even had someone tell me that she bid 3C as a 2nd negative !!! Anyhow..that being said, maybe they play differently elsewhere, so after his 4C I still try to salvage the hand by bidding 4H and hope that if he has 4 he passes and if he doesn't he bids 4NT which leaves you in the same spot. Perhaps he has a powerful 5 card club suit and bids 5C and can ruff his 3rd spade in your hand as help and it makes. I guess you left after this...if I couldn't leave after this hand, combined with the previous 4, I'd shoot myself..and with a large powerful gun.

[Mr. Dodgy]

LOL, I didn't leave, although the boards detailed were not the only reason I might have had for doing so. My partner's comments about my skill were, frankly, disgraceful (and, it would seem from the replies to this thread thus far, misplaced). But this was a tournament, and I NEVER leave. I felt sickened, but stuck it out. MBC I would have left after #3, if not considerably earlier.

No, Ben, it wasn't you. I suspect you knew that. The one time I have played with you was thoroughly enjoyable, even if not spectacularly successful

[bid_em_up]

Mr. Dodgy, on Jul 1 2006, 11:38 AM, said:

Playing with an 'expert' partner, whose profile stated SAYC the following disasters befell me. Please comment on the bidding.

1. I'm East...

Scoring: IMP

P-P-P-1♣
P-1♦-P-2♥
P-2♠-P-3♣
A

---

I wasn't sure whether 2♠ was asking for or showing stops. To my mind it should be asking. In any case, someone should bid 3NT. Who?

West has a couple of choices of bids here. He can bid 2N (over 2H), followed by 3N over partners next call. If playing leb, where 2N is relay to 3C or 3C is positive with club fit, he can bid 3C then 3N over partners next call. After East has shown 9+ cards in clubs and hearts, it is pointless to be hunting a 4-4 spade fit with a 2S bid.

Mr. Dodgy, on Jul 1 2006, 11:38 AM, said:

2. I'm North...

Scoring: IMP

P-3♣-3♦-4♥
5♦-P-P-5♠
P-P-X-6♥
X-A



OK, so 3♣ is stetching a little, especially at this vulnerability...but...

The 4♥ bidder should double 5♦ when it comes back around to him. Where is he going with 5♠? Can he really expect the preempter to hold the club A, the diamond A or K and Kxxx of spades as well? Just plain silly. If he cant bring himself to doubling 5♦, I could excuse a 5♥ bid, but 5♠ is absolutely insane.

Quote

4. I'm North...

Dealer: South Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ 76 ♥ KJ82 ♦ J753 ♣ T53 ♠ A4 ♥ A954 ♦ AQ9 ♣ AKQ2

2♣-P-2♦!-P 2NT-P-3♣!-P 4♣-P-4♦-P 4NT-A Isn't 3♣ Stayman here? If 3♣ is anything but stayman in this sequence, it is news to me. Quote If you want to know more, just ask. I'm afraid to. Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary? So many experts, not enough X cards. 0 Back to top of the page up there ^ #17   bid_em_up  Group: Advanced Members Posts: 2,351 Joined: 2006-March-21 Location:North Carolina Posted 2006-July-06, 13:11 Ok I give up, why is it that I can get the hands succesfully posted once, but if I edit my post later, I get all this gobbley-de-gook garbage? (I reedited the above post to put the hands back in correctly). Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary? So many experts, not enough X cards. 0 Back to top of the page up there ^ #18   awm  Group: Advanced Members Posts: 8,741 Joined: 2005-February-09 Gender:Male Location:Zurich, Switzerland Posted 2006-July-06, 16:12 Well there are plenty of mistakes to go around on these boards: 1. 2♥ is game forcing in standard bidding. This hand is probably not worth 2♥ (I would bid only 1♥); however the real problem is west's pass of 3♣. Why pass in a game forcing auction? West even has extras, it's not like some embarrassing minimum where he might be tempted to pass. Even if he (mistakenly) thinks 3♣ is not forcing surely partner has extras and 9 hcp is plenty for game. 2. South's 2♣ bid (instead of 1♠) is weird. Why not bid the major fit? However, I think north's double if 3♦ is just awful -- once you've agreed a fit the normal meaning of double here is cooperative penalty, not a singleton in the suit your penalizing. 3. East really should bid 5♥ over 5♦. Three card support and prime club cards are basically the best possible dummy you could put down for hearts. If partner's 4♥ bid is not totally insane (well after boards 1-2 I guess you might doubt pd's sanity), then 5♥ rates to be making. Of course, west's 5♠ bid is completely insane (double is the normal action, especially with singleton club). 4. Yes 3♣ stayman is standard in this auction. Adam W. Meyerson a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit 0 Back to top of the page up there ^ #19   han  Under bidder Group: Advanced Members Posts: 11,797 Joined: 2004-July-25 Gender:Male Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands Posted 2006-July-08, 05:37 I agree with all that Adam said.. 1. 2♥ is an overbid. I imagine that you would have had a smooth auction if you had bid 1♥ instead. 2. Partner should bid spades of course, 2♣ is crazy. Your 3♣ is a big underbid, you have a huge fit and you know it. 3. Stretching a little is a very mild way to describe this 3♣ opening. At unfavorrable it wouldn't occur to me. I also think that you should bid 5♥. Partner went berserk of course, but what do you expect from an expert with sayc on his profile? 4. 3♣ is Stayman. But what do you expect from... Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1. - hrothgar 0 Back to top of the page up there ^ #20   P_Marlowe  Group: Advanced Members Posts: 11,239 Joined: 2005-March-18 Gender:Male Posted 2006-July-08, 07:28 1) 2S asks 2) 3C is a stretch, to put it mildly, a 6 card, lousy distribution, ... I can understand 4H, but 5S is garbage, ig he wants to compete he should repeat his heart suit, 5S should have been corrected by the preemptor to 6H, does not change the result, ... 3) 3C is Stayman With kind regards Marlowe With kind regards Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe) 0 Back to top of the page up there ^ Forum Home Bridge-Related Discussion (not BBO-related)   |-- General Bridge Discussion (not BBO-specific)   |-- Interesting Bridge Hands   |-- Intermediate and Advanced Bridge Discussion   |-- Expert-Class Bridge   |-- Novice and Beginner Forum   |-- Natural Bidding Discussion   |-- Non-Natural System Discussion   |-- Bridge Material Review   |-- Youth Bridge   |-- BBO Juniors   |-- BPO - Bridge Poll Online   |-- Offline Bridge Bridge Base Online Discussion   |-- BBO Announcements and Special Events   |-- General BBO Discussion   |-- BBO Forum Events   |-- Suggestions for the Software   |-- BBO Support Forum   |-- Find a Partner/Teacher!   |-- BBO Tournaments Discussion   |-- BBO Tournament Directors Forum   |-- Vugraph issues   |-- Dealer Scripts   |-- BBO Robot Discussion International Forum   |-- 华人论坛   |-- 华娱世界   |-- Il forum per bridgisti italiani-   |-- Forum pro ceske a slovenske bridzisty   |-- Hungarian Forum   |-- Spanish Forum   |-- Türk oyuncular için Forum   |-- German Forum   |-- Ceske bridzove forum   |-- Dutch Forum   |-- French Forum Off-Topic   |-- The Water Cooler International Bridge Laws Forum (IBLF)   |-- Laws and Rulings   |-- Simple Rulings   |-- Appeals and Appeals Committees   |-- Changing Laws & Regulations ← Previous Topic Intermediate and Advanced Bridge Discussion Next Topic → 2 Pages 1 2 → You cannot start a new topic You cannot reply to this topic 1 User(s) are reading this topic 0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users Delete Post Remove From View The post may still be visible to moderators in this topic Reason: Delete From Topic The post will be removed from this topic completely Skin and Language Language: English (USA) Execution Stats Time Now: 2026-Nov-11, 09:19 Back To Top Forum Home Delete My Cookies Mark Board As Read Community Forum Software by IP.Board 3.1.4

[bid_em_up]

Ok I give up, why is it that I can get the hands succesfully posted once, but if I edit my post later, I get all this gobbley-de-gook garbage? (I reedited the above post to put the hands back in correctly).

[awm]

Well there are plenty of mistakes to go around on these boards:

1. 2♥ is game forcing in standard bidding. This hand is probably not worth 2♥ (I would bid only 1♥); however the real problem is west's pass of 3♣. Why pass in a game forcing auction? West even has extras, it's not like some embarrassing minimum where he might be tempted to pass. Even if he (mistakenly) thinks 3♣ is not forcing surely partner has extras and 9 hcp is plenty for game.

2. South's 2♣ bid (instead of 1♠) is weird. Why not bid the major fit? However, I think north's double if 3♦ is just awful -- once you've agreed a fit the normal meaning of double here is cooperative penalty, not a singleton in the suit your penalizing.

3. East really should bid 5♥ over 5♦. Three card support and prime club cards are basically the best possible dummy you could put down for hearts. If partner's 4♥ bid is not totally insane (well after boards 1-2 I guess you might doubt pd's sanity), then 5♥ rates to be making. Of course, west's 5♠ bid is completely insane (double is the normal action, especially with singleton club).

4. Yes 3♣ stayman is standard in this auction.

[han]

I agree with all that Adam said..

1. 2♥ is an overbid. I imagine that you would have had a smooth auction if you had bid 1♥ instead.

2. Partner should bid spades of course, 2♣ is crazy. Your 3♣ is a big underbid, you have a huge fit and you know it.

3. Stretching a little is a very mild way to describe this 3♣ opening. At unfavorrable it wouldn't occur to me. I also think that you should bid 5♥. Partner went berserk of course, but what do you expect from an expert with sayc on his profile?

4. 3♣ is Stayman. But what do you expect from...

[P_Marlowe]

1) 2S asks
2) 3C is a stretch, to put it mildly,
a 6 card, lousy distribution, ...
I can understand 4H, but
5S is garbage, ig he wants to
compete he should repeat his
heart suit, 5S should have been
corrected by the preemptor to 6H,
does not change the result, ...
3) 3C is Stayman

With kind regards
Marlowe