[Winstonm]

Scoring: IMP

Playing strong nt against a strong pair in the K.O.s, the auction begins:

S W N E
1N P 2C 3S
P 4S 5D P
?

Partner is marked on this auction with 4 hearts, 5+ diamonds and a game forcing hand.

What do you do now?

---

[HeartA]

I would bid 6D.

[flytoox]

5S. My hand looks good now.

[FrancesHinden]

Let me give you a bidding problem:

-
Kxxx
AQxxxx
xxx

partner opens a strong NT and the auction proceeds as shown.
wouldn't you bid 5D here?

(note 5D might go off opposite that hand on a club ruff)

Give this hand the queen of hearts as well, and 6D has some play but is still pretty poor.

5D from partner is not a slam try. It is a guess at the best contract and is very likely to be based on a spade void. with a slam try partner could bid 4NT, or could hope our values aren't too much in spades and bid a slam.

I would pass 5D and call it rub of the green if partner has - KQxx AQxxxx Axx: but that hand is worth a slam try.

[han]

Absolutely agree with Frances, anything but pass seems uncalled for.

Perhaps a serious partnership would have an agreement about what 4NT followed by 5D over 5C would show. Should that be a slam try?

[hatchett]

Pass is obvious

[SoTired]

pass... From opps bidding, opener's hand is an open book. Responder may assume Opener has little wasted strength in spades and a diam fit, so if Responder held something like - Kxxx AQxxxx Axx, responder would just bid 6D.

[pclayton]

IF pard has the hand I'm hoping for: x, KQxx, AQJxxx, xx (and I need every bit of this for slam), wouldn't 4N followed by 5♦ be more sensible?

I think pard has a 6-4 along the lines of what Frances suggests, a direct 5♦ makes more sense.

[whereagles]

Difficult. Sure, pard may be streching, but why can't he have a good hand? Unless you play gadgets to differentiate between a good and a bad 5♦, you can't tell it for sure.

Anyway..
If I want to play safe, pass.
If I want a swing, it costs nothing to try 5♠. Just in case pard has a good hand and 7 is in the pic.

[kfgauss]

pclayton, on Jun 22 2006, 02:12 PM, said:

IF pard has the hand I'm hoping for: x, KQxx, AQJxxx, xx (and I need every bit of this for slam), wouldn't 4N followed by 5♦ be more sensible?

I think pard has a 6-4 along the lines of what Frances suggests, a direct 5♦ makes more sense.

I also pass, but am less certain about the meaning of 4NT. I wouldn't know what "standard" would be (to play?) and it seems there are several different "obviously correct" scientific interpretations.

Anyone have meta-agreements that cover this in a sensible way?

Andy

[Winstonm]

Hannie, on Jun 22 2006, 07:10 AM, said:

Absolutely agree with Frances, anything but pass seems uncalled for.

Perhaps a serious partnership would have an agreement about what 4NT followed by 5D over 5C would show. Should that be a slam try?

This idea certainly makes sense to a degree - but what if partner holds 46 in hearts and clubs? Should 4N be an undetermined slam try in either minor?

I think there is more sense to reverse the meanings - a direct bid is a slam try and 4N is an attempt to play game in either minor and is not a slam try.

Winston

[FrancesHinden]

kfgauss, on Jun 22 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

pclayton, on Jun 22 2006, 02:12 PM, said:

IF pard has the hand I'm hoping for: x, KQxx, AQJxxx, xx (and I need every bit of this for slam), wouldn't 4N followed by 5♦ be more sensible?

I think pard has a 6-4 along the lines of what Frances suggests, a direct 5♦ makes more sense.

I also pass, but am less certain about the meaning of 4NT. I wouldn't know what "standard" would be (to play?) and it seems there are several different "obviously correct" scientific interpretations.

Anyone have meta-agreements that cover this in a sensible way?

Andy

I don't have a meta-agreement to show exactly this type of hand, because I would have bid (transferred to) diamonds first with diamonds and hearts.

However, my general meta-agreement in this sort of competitive auction is that if 4NT cannot be natural (such as here, when partner would have doubled) then 4NT is some sort of slam try, and bidding a suit is weaker.

[Halo]

May be difficult to have a meta agreement where it is not yet known that partner has another suit, which suit it is, or how long the suit is.

On balance passing does look right here. If you need, say, diamonds breaking 2-2 for twelve tricks, the auction is not very encouraging about good suit breaks. You will just have to say sorry when partner has a red 'picture' (♥KQ9x and ♦AJxxxx and things work.

[Free]

This one is a clear pass imo...