[inquiry]

Playing in an individual, you deal and hold...

Scoring: MP

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While you might should venture 1NT (it is an individual after all), you stick with your hand evaluation and start 1♣. The bidding continues...

You
1♣ - (Pass) - 1♥ - (Pass)
1♠ -- (2♦!) - 3♥! - (Pass)
Your bid?

BTW, everyone else DID open this 1NT. Do you think that is the correct opening bid?

[Gerben42]

4♥ is enough. And agree with not opening 1NT.

[jdonn]

I like 1NT, but it's something of a moot point since neither opening bid is really wrong. Here I figure 3♥ is invitational, so 4♥ wtp?

[pbleighton]

4H, because it is an indy and because I have two diamond losers.

I would have opened 1NT in an indy without hesitation. With a regular pd it is close, I probably would open 1C, because I have 4 spades.

Peter

[jillybean]

Interesting hand. I don’t what 3♥ shows length, weak or strong hand?

Given this is an indy, I’d very reluctantly signoff in 4♥ now.

I think a 1♣ opening and reverse into 2♠ better shows this hand than opening 1nt.
( I see I disagreee with the experts

[jdeegan]

4♥
I would have opened 1NT under the conditions described. I have no clue as to what is 'right' or 'wrong' with 5-4-2-2 hands with opening NT range HCP. It clearly depends on a number of factors: my exact hand, type of scoring, partner's skill, our NT range et.al. I would love to see an informed discussion of the matter, esp. since so many top players are doing it now.

I do know from experience that it is seriously wrong to open 5-4's with 1 10-13 HCP NT. This is, essentially, because the law of total tricks gives you a less than normal chance to have an eight card fit, and if you have a two suit fit, you may have no stoppers in the other two suits. What I remember from my misadventures opening 5-4's with one 10-13 HCP NT are hands where the opponents ran the first 9 or 10 tricks against 1NT vul. One case I recall was in a local duplicate in Hammond, La. in 1994.

[pbleighton]

"I do know from experience that it is seriously wrong to open 5-4's with 1 10-13 HCP NT."

Funny, my experience is just the opposite.

Peter

[inquiry]

Reverse hearts and spades, and I would be much more likely to open 1NT. The reason, after opening 1C, the rebid over 1S would be someone under pressure (1NT huge underbid, 2NT huge overbid, 2H a so-so ok reverse). But after opening 1♣, easy rebids exist.

As to what does 3♥ show. This was an individual. I don't know about you guys, but in an individual, I play jump bids as forcing. It doesn't matter what you play in the real world with your regular partners, individuals you had best fall back on old school bidding, unless of course, you know the partner and both of you have reason to believe you will be on the same page with 3♥ being only invitiational.

Even if invitiation, try to imagine a hand missing the KJ of hearts, that partner might have for this bid, and partner could have bid 2♥ over 2♦ as well as a "free bid". Not that I will convince anyone my bid was correct.... but it wasn't 4♥.

[jillybean]

6♥...how long are we to be kept in suspense?

[inquiry]

jillybean2, on Jun 7 2006, 04:23 PM, said:

6♥...how long are we to be kept in suspense?

Might not you be afraid they will take two fast tricks in diamonds?

[jillybean]

yes, ok 5

[Gerben42]

Does that ask partner to bid 6 with a ♦ control, and even if it does will your indy partner ever understand?

[pbleighton]

"I think a 1♣ opening and reverse into 2♠ better shows this hand than opening 1nt. "

That would show a better than a min 1NT opener, IMO (but then, I'm not an expert ). OTOH, since your second suit is spades, it is very likely that pd will respond 1D/1H/1S, and you will be fine. It is only a 1NT response that sticks you.

Peter

[pclayton]

Trying a 5♥ call in an Indy is really a gamble. Unless you know the player I'd try 4♥ and be content with game.

[hrothgar]

I'm HAPPY to open slightly offshape NTs, however, not on this hand

After 1♣ - 1♥, I'm happy to rebid 2♠
After 1♣ - 1♦, I'll rebid 1♠

[flytoox]

Raise to 4H seems normal. Doesnt it? Perhaps a fake cue of 4D?

[pbleighton]

"I'm HAPPY to open slightly offshape NTs, however, not on this hand

After 1♣ - 1♥, I'm happy to rebid 2♠
After 1♣ - 1D, I'll rebid 1♠ "

Richard, are you happy to force to game opposite a potential 6 count on a 5422 shape 17 count with a jack doubleton, a good but not great primary suit, and no known fit? Or do you not consider 2S to be GF? I would just rebid 1S.

Peter

[inquiry]

Well, I have to admit that 4♥ didn't occur to me either at the table or later. Partner will not have wasted stuff in ♦'s, thought his hand good enough for a jump to 3♥ as opposed to a free bid. I do admit I thought the jump was forcing, given it was an individual with no discussion other than agreed to my partners profile which was, I think, SAYC.

Partner certainly has 6 or more likely 7 hearts to the AQ for this bidding (given I have the KJ). I also hold AK-A in the black suits with some finessable combinations. So I made the bid of 5♥ hoping (maybe foolishly) partner will bid 6♥ with a diamond control. Indeed partner had a stiff diamond, the expected hearts and four clubs to the queen, and 6♥ was laydown. On the other hand, that was all partner had so 3♥ was not forcing as most of you summized. For what it is worth, parnter took the 5♥ bid as bid slam with a diamond control.

[Walddk]

inquiry, on Jun 8 2006, 02:37 PM, said:

For what it is worth, parnter took the 5♥ bid as bid slam with a diamond control.

You were indeed lucky to be facing a partner in an individual who took 5♥ as "bid slam with a diamond control". Was she 1714? Something like:

♠ x
♥ AQ10xxxx
♦ x
♣ Qxxx

If yes, pretty good for an invitational 3♥, knowing that you had 5+ clubs. OTOH, not easy to find a better bid. Perhaps 3♦ and then she will get 3♥ from you. That makes her hand enormous.

Roland

[han]

Classic 4H bid imo, but I do not have much experience inindividuals.