[1eyedjack]

Scoring: IMP

N...E...S...W
P...P...1H..2C
P...P...2D..P
P...P

N/S are playing Acol - a natural system based on 4 card major openings and 12-14 1NT opener. X by North would be neg but promising 4x♠. I suspect that the systemic problems on this hand are broadly similar to those presented by other national standard systems, although N perhaps might support H on doubleton if pressed opposite a known 5 card H suit (probably not a success here)

---

So, how to get to 3N?

A more flexible style of negative double by North that does not require a 4th Spade would be a possibility, although to do it with Kxxx of Clubs distorts it further. I think that promising a 4th Spade is a common agreement.

Perhaps North should raise 2D to 3D, but I don't see how that helps South. Any votes for 2N by N over the 2C?
Perhaps South should protect with a jump to 3D despite North's passing. There are risks associated with the bid but it may work on this hand.

[helene_t]

North should certainly raise to 3♦, but as South I would not move further, then.

Alternatively, South could double. If North knows that EW make this kinds of overcalls, he can let it stand.

BTW, doesn't the useful space principle say that dbl should deny spades and 2♦ promise spades? Just a thought .....

[whereagles]

If, in the situation

1♥ . 2♣ pass pass
2♦ pass 2NT

2NT were artificial, showing a weakish hand with no desire to play in game, then North's direct 3♦ (instead of 2NT) would show a good raise. Would be easy for South to bid on now.

[Codo]

North has a fit in diamonds and 9 HCPs more then he promised. he must bid after 2 Diamond. My choice would be 3 Diamond and I would miss 3 NT.

[jdonn]

whereagles, on Jun 6 2006, 04:08 AM, said:

If, in the situation

1♥ . 2♣ pass pass
2♦ pass 2NT

2NT were artificial, showing a weakish hand with no desire to play in game, then North's direct 3♦ (instead of 2NT) would show a good raise. Would be easy for South to bid on now.

And there I was always thinking that PASS shows a weakish hand with no desire to play in game

It's hard to bid game. To get there north has to bid 2NT, and it's hard to blame him for not since it looks like just one club stopper, which likely won't be enough. South could possibly bid over north's 3♦ raise, but passing is not wrong.

[mike777]

If you bid very aggressively you might get to 3nt but this feels a bit double dummy looking at all the hands.

P=P=1H=(2c)
P=P=X=P
2NT=P=3NT?


The bidding through 2nt is fine but should south at IMPs Vul overbid with 3nt with all the hcp in one opp hand? Has the fact the Lho has made only one bid with her hand make you more likely to risk an overbid of 3nt? Does the fact lho has made an overcall at fav vul for them after pard is a passed hand mean anything?
Again maybe this is all a bit double dummy and easier away from the table.

[hotShot]

I think that north should simply bid 2♦ over 2♣. Acol is about bidding 4 card suits and he has one. Perhaps your agreement is to have 10 hcp, but i think adding a fictional point here is better than subtract 9 real ones.
I don't know if you end up in 3NT than, but at least you have a chance.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I think the pass by North is heavy,
does Nort really believe he holds a
trap pass?

What North should bid is a different
story, I like X, which should just
promise to control the auction, else
he will need to make the overbid of 2NT.

If North passes, he should raise 2D to
3D although South wont be able to
place North, with this strength.
And it is unclear, if South should make a
move over 3D.

5D is a longway to go, altough the raise is
probably based on a hand, with a trap pass?
slightly to weak for 2NT.

Fine interference, I wont be able to get this
right at the table.


With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: Give West full credit for his enterprising
2C bid and move on.

[awm]

Having passed the 2♣ bid, could north really have a better hand? I think only a true "penalty pass" type hand could be better; surely with 10+ points (and not wanting to defend 2♣X) north would have found a call.

With this in mind, I like bidding 3♣ over 2♦. This should show the "best possible diamond raise given the initial pass." South will move over this, likely bidding 3♠ to show a control and elicit 3NT from partner.

[moysian]

I think 3n is easy to reach. Over south's 2d, north should bid 2n. South can bid 3n rather than 3d (which would imply a weaker hand). Even if south rebids 3d, North can venture 3n (or bid 4d).

Alternatively, south could double 2c (TO), and north bids 2N. South then carries on to 3n.

Or, north can double 2c immediately. South bids 3d (showing extras, almost), and north bids 3n.


Losing a game swing because we got to 5d and failed (or stopped at 4d) is far less embarrassing than playing at 2d, having not even recognized that game was possible.

[foo]

pa-pa-1H-(2C);
pa-pa-2D-pa;
2N-pa-3N-end

N's first pass limited them to 0-9 HCP and denied many possible shapes as well.

When S gives N a chance to bid again, N needs to show that they are at the top part of the range they have previously shown and have C's stopped as well.

S then knows that C's are at least 2x stopped and that North has something like a
=3244 ~7-9 count {notice that is exactly what Responder has}.

S's hand is ~= 17+ in terms of playing strength here given this information.

That's enough to imagine 3N having reasonable play and to bid it.

[whereagles]

jdonn, on Jun 6 2006, 06:26 PM, said:

whereagles, on Jun 6 2006, 04:08 AM, said:

If, in the situation

1♥ . 2♣ pass pass
2♦ pass 2NT

2NT were artificial, showing a weakish hand with no desire to play in game

And there I was always thinking that PASS shows a weakish hand with no desire to play in game

Well, there are three categories of "weak": weak, very weak and yarborough Respectively 6-8, 3-5 and 0-2

[helene_t]

hotShot, on Jun 6 2006, 10:06 PM, said:

I think that north should simply bid 2♦ over 2♣. Acol is about bidding 4 card suits and he has one. Perhaps your agreement is to have 10 hcp, but i think adding a fictional point here is better than subtract 9 real ones.
I don't know if you end up in 3NT than, but at least you have a chance.

Didn't think about that option but you're right. I don't think 2♦ should promise more than this, after all we're playing weak notrump so North has to catter for South having a balanced 15-16 that can't reopen safely. A freebid at the two-level below the opening suit promises that you can tollerate a 2NT rebid if opener has a minimum balanced, which is 15 HCPs in this case.

I would like longer or at least better diamonds, though.

[kenberg]

I like the awm approach (after 2D, N bids 3C to show diamonds and a maximum first round pass) a lot. This approach should get the partnership to a good contract most of the time.

By the way, there has often been comment on this forum about the comparitive dearth of play problems compared to bidding problems. It seems that this hand has some interesting features. After winning the first club, declarer does what?

Looking at all four hands it seems simple: Cash the king of spades, finnese the spade Jack, run the 8 of diamonds. No problem? Suppose W ducks the first diamond. Declarer must now consider that E may have started with K76. If so, another diamond play will kill the hand. If the Jack is led and covered, declarer has his diamonds but no way back to the board for the king of clubs. If the second diamond lead is a spot then E plays low, declarer is in his hand, cashes the ace of diamonds, gets back to the board with the J of diamonds to get his club king, but now has no way to his hand to get the last diamond. Most likely when the first diamond holds, he will cash the king of clubs, repeat the diamond finesse, and go down.

Declarer must foresee this at trick 2 and begin be playing ace and another diamond, succeeding against a singleton king of diamonds or an onside spade queen. Unless he thinks W is not up to a smooth duck holding Kx.


Added in later:
I guess I have to take that back. After running the 8 you can lead the J w/o fear of being locked in hand. If the Jack is covered by the king then after two spades and five diamonds you can just start a small heart towards the 8. Either they put you back on the board with your black kings or they give you two hearts.

Oh well.

This post has been edited by kenberg: 2006-June-07, 10:42

[cherdano]

If 2♦ by North is really the ACOL bid, I know I will never be able to play that system.

[cherdano]

If 2♦ by North is really the ACOL bid, I know I will never be able to play that system.

[hotShot]

cherdano, on Jun 8 2006, 04:07 PM, said:

If 2♦ by North is really the ACOL bid, I know I will never be able to play that system.

1M - 2m - ?
This sequence is a systemic weak spot of ACOL. And you need to make agreements how to handle it.
In the case given, it is combined with a neg. X thas has to have 4♠. Limited this way the only bids available are pass and 2♦.

If you think it's better to hide 9 HCP, then pass. But how should partner know when to reopen, since playing weak NT he will often hold a strong hand.

Your side has (probably by far) the majoraty of points, and you can't tell partner.

I would remove the ♠ restriction from the dbl for future hands. But within the given limitations 2♦ makes more sence to me (i would like to have a better suit too).

This hand works well with pass and reopening, but other boards you will pass with 0-3 HCP and partner will reopen too, because you might have 9.