[aisha759]

Hi everyone:
I was told by a friend yesterday, that she was playing in the main bridge club, under a different nick than her usual one.... she had a few partners she did not get along with, therefore, left a table a few times whilst she was dummy.
It seems she has now been suspended for 3 days i think from playing in certain areas of BBO... i can't remember which exactly, but i think team matches and main club.... (i could be wrong,and could be turneys, and main)....she did not leave in anger, just said good bye politely and tried to find another table.
The reason i am asking this, is because i have had a terrible connection today, and left table as dummy, as declarer and as defender over 10 times, and tried to keep coming back, playing half a hand and having to log off again... so does this mean i get suspended also? And how can one tell?
She was honest and did say she left because she wasnt comfortable with her partners, but her reasons COULD have been a bad connection......
Leaving a tournament too often does lead to suspension, this we all know.. but playing in the main club, and not knowing other players, one tries out several tables until there is a certain chemistry...
So what is the scoop here?
Thank you in advance
Aisha

[uday]

If you leave a table after you have taken a call while the hand is in progress, a black mark is registered. Enough black marks in one day, and a short suspension is triggered. it does not matter whether you leave as dummy or as declarer.

Something similar happens in tourneys.

It is our belief that abandoning hands bec. you don't think someone at the table "worked out" for you is a form of rudeness.

[jdonn]

uday, on May 31 2006, 12:28 PM, said:

If you leave a table after you have taken a call while the hand is in progress, a black mark is registered. Enough black marks in one day, and a short suspension is triggered. it does not matter whether you leave as dummy or as declarer.

Something similar happens in tourneys.

It is our belief that abandoning hands bec. you don't think someone at the table "worked out" for you is a form of rudeness.

Why a punishment for leaving as dummy, that is absolutely ridiculous. Why should he have to sit there and watch strangers play a hand if he is leaving? Plus it gives more time for the players to find a replacement.

Your belief of what constitutes rudeness may not correspond to everyone's belief. Or even most people's.

[sceptic]

Question, how would you feel if you were playing, live and someone said, I am sorry, but I am not comfortable with you as a partner and just as you tabled the hand, they got up and left?

how embarassing for the partner especially if they are playing with opponents that are their friends

I would also be curious as to how many partners she did not like , that warrented a 3 day suspension


I think it is rude

[Al_U_Card]

A question of mutual respect. When I try a pard, I usually give them 3 instances of things that I don't like before after that hand is finished and I resort to the ubiquitous "tyall, gtg" and I do. (Marking in the comments why I should not try them again etc.)

[kgr]

jdonn, on May 31 2006, 10:09 PM, said:

uday, on May 31 2006, 12:28 PM, said:

If you leave a table after you have taken a call while the hand is in progress, a black mark is registered.  Enough black marks in one day, and a short suspension is triggered.  it does not matter whether you leave as dummy or as declarer.

Something similar happens in tourneys.

It is our belief that abandoning hands bec. you don't think someone at the table "worked out" for you is a form of rudeness.

Why a punishment for leaving as dummy, that is absolutely ridiculous. Why should he have to sit there and watch strangers play a hand if he is leaving? Plus it gives more time for the players to find a replacement.

Your belief of what constitutes rudeness may not correspond to everyone's belief. Or even most people's.

Agree.
One of the worst rules on BBO in my opinion.
- when I stop playing then I prefer to leave when being dummy. I rather leave at the start of the play when dummy then at the end of the hand. That gives the host more time to choose another player.
- A big problem is that wen two players leave together it is often much more difficult to get other candidates when two seats are empty. That situation is increased if you have to wait until the hand is finished before leaving as dummy.
- I really don't see why it would be more rude to leave while being dummy then just after the play ended. You wee dummy, so nobody really needs you. As long as you leave with no rude comments and say somtehing like "sry gtg to other table. bye p & opps" I really don't see any issue here.
- Considering all this I PREFER that if somebody wants to leave that he is doing it while Dummy.
.... instead of giving a black point for leaving as dummy, give 2 black points for leaving after starting to bid a hand.

[jillybean]

This one of the better rules on bbo, I only wish the ratio #played/deserted were reduced.
My guess is that dummy is counted along with all players to keep the programming requirements to a minimum rather than to punish people unnecessarily. Be it your intentions are less than noble or you have a bad connection the effect is the same, games are disrupted.

The threshold is such that the occasional click off when you are dummy will have no consequence at all.

jb

[pclayton]

jdonn, on May 31 2006, 12:09 PM, said:

uday, on May 31 2006, 12:28 PM, said:

If you leave a table after you have taken a call while the hand is in progress, a black mark is registered.  Enough black marks in one day, and a short suspension is triggered.  it does not matter whether you leave as dummy or as declarer.

Something similar happens in tourneys.

It is our belief that abandoning hands bec. you don't think someone at the table "worked out" for you is a form of rudeness.

Why a punishment for leaving as dummy, that is absolutely ridiculous. Why should he have to sit there and watch strangers play a hand if he is leaving? Plus it gives more time for the players to find a replacement.

Your belief of what constitutes rudeness may not correspond to everyone's belief. Or even most people's.

I would hesistate to use the term 'ridiculous'.

How many times have we seen someone put down their hand (and be able to kib declarer's hand), get visibly disgusted and bolt. This is rude behavior.

I see the point about having more time to find someone, but its a hassle seating someone in a restricted table mid-hand, and an open table takes a nanosecond to fill these days - with 7,000 regularly on. So you really don't gain anything by having the dummy leave mid hand.

I like the rules as-is, and dummy should have to watch while declarer struggles. There's a good chance the dummy contributed to the debacle, so its apt punishment.

[Flame]

I brought it up long time ago, and got a nice suggestion (i think from Ben), when you want to leave as dummy, press your seat and you will get to be kib, this will help the host finding a sub, at the end of the hand leave the table completetly.

[ritong]

[QUOTE]Why a punishment for leaving as dummy, that is absolutely ridiculous. Why should he have to sit there and watch strangers play a hand if he is leaving? Plus it gives more time for the players to find a replacement.

Your belief of what constitutes rudeness may not correspond to everyone's belief. Or even most people's.

this post is scandalous.
next time you envisage to post obscenities, please consider first that we all are sheri, fred and uday's guests here. maybe that will help you to avoid giving them rudeness lessons with such violent tones.
it should be obvious to anyone that managing a crowd of 100.000 + guests creates problems, some of which can be only partially solved with "the less bad" solution. in my humble opinion, the problem evocated in this thread belongs to this category, and, if i disagreed with my hosts choices, i would try to express it in a civilized manner, for example via a polite mail. standing up in the middle of the living room to yell at hosts can hardly contribute to the success of a party, donn.

[Free]

Last week we had an interesting situation:

We were playing (me and f2f partner against unknown opps) and suddenly we get a broadcast that the Netherlands will be playing in VUGraph. Promptly I say "last one for me, the Netherlands are going to play", partner does the same. LHO becomes declarer, RHO is dummy and asks if it's ok to leave as well! Very nice of him, and we both said "no problem, you're dummy" He left, and I guess he got a black point somehow.

This makes me wonder: there are several types of leaving the table as dummy. I wouldn't call the rule ridiculous (since many players just leave out of frustration, but still, what's the problem?), but there's a lot of improvement possible imo. The exact implementation won't be easy, because you get more variables to consider, and I also don't think it's high on the priority list.

Saying that you don't feel comfortable with your partner can be interpreted 2 ways... One will say it's rude, another will be glad his 'partner' gave a reason and didn't just take off without saying a word. My thought on that: it might lead to misunderstandings, so don't do it. Just say you have to go or so, and if you want to make it seem like you log off, actually log off and back in...

[barmar]

Free, on Jun 1 2006, 03:41 AM, said:

Last week we had an interesting situation:

We were playing (me and f2f partner against unknown opps) and suddenly we get a broadcast that the Netherlands will be playing in VUGraph. Promptly I say "last one for me, the Netherlands are going to play", partner does the same. LHO becomes declarer, RHO is dummy and asks if it's ok to leave as well! Very nice of him, and we both said "no problem, you're dummy" He left, and I guess he got a black point somehow.

So? That's a special situation, it's not likely to happen repeatedly. As Uday said, you only get suspended if you do it several times in the same day.

In other words, the rule mainly exists to deal with people who hop from table to table, leaving as soon as they notice anything they don't like (often with very high standards for this). While it's less annoying if they wait until they're dummy to do this, it's still rude.

[aisha759]

Thank you all for your input
I will relay all your answers to my friend, so she understands how this works....
She wasnt trying to be rude nor insulting, just trying to find a table with a partner she could get along with.
I am surprised i wasnt suspended yesterday for leaving over 10 times, and coming back due to very unstable connection... i finally decided its best if i dont play, as it was disrupting everyone...
I didnt know about main bridge club rules, so now i know:)
Thanks again
Aisha

[jdonn]

ritong, on Jun 1 2006, 01:23 AM, said:

Quote

Why a punishment for leaving as dummy, that is absolutely ridiculous. Why should he have to sit there and watch strangers play a hand if he is leaving? Plus it gives more time for the players to find a replacement.

Your belief of what constitutes rudeness may not correspond to everyone's belief. Or even most people's.

this post is scandalous.
next time you envisage to post obscenities, please consider first that we all are sheri, fred and uday's guests here. maybe that will help you to avoid giving them rudeness lessons with such violent tones.
it should be obvious to anyone that managing a crowd of 100.000 + guests creates problems, some of which can be only partially solved with "the less bad" solution. in my humble opinion, the problem evocated in this thread belongs to this category, and, if i disagreed with my hosts choices, i would try to express it in a civilized manner, for example via a polite mail. standing up in the middle of the living room to yell at hosts can hardly contribute to the success of a party, donn.

I can't respond since I don't even understand your complaint about my post, other than to say that the words scandalous, obscenities, and violent in no way describe anything I wrote. Besides, they all know how much I appreciate them.

[aisha759]

We all appreciate the efforts made for BBO... my thread started out as a genuine inquiry about the rules on leaving a table in main bridge club as dummy in particular...
In f2f bridge you would obviously not leave a table if you are unhappy with your partner, you probably wouldnt play with them again if there was a total lack of communication... Same thing applies to BBO when playing in a tournament... I wasnt aware, and neither was my friend, about the main bridge club rules... that's all!
She was truly surprised, as she had no idea that this would be the outcome...
How about the numerous times one sits at a table, and after a few hands is asked to give up seat for someones regular partner? One must oblige, i normally do... and whilst looking for a table to play at, when none of ones friends are on, it has happened quite a few times, thats a black dot right there... then you sit at a table, where players are on their last couple of boards, they say their goodbyes and leave, so you also leave... thats another black dot... Can't this happen a few times in one day?
It doesnt mean one is rude, or has left intentionally each time...
I have understood now though, that one needs to do this a lot of times to get that suspension.... otherwise, I would definitely have gotten that suspension 2 days ago, from logging in and out of BBO several times, definitely more than 5 times... ( sorry if im repeating myself
But again, thank you Fred, Sheri and Uday... we all know you do your best to be as fair as possible to all the members... its difficult to please everyone...
And thank you Uday for the information... i wasnt looking for opinions, i was looking for one answer and I got it...
Aisha

[ArcLight]

I find it far worse for a defender to quit during the play. That tends to screw the hand. Quitting as Dummy has no impact.

There is no reason for Dummy to have to stick around if (s)he doesn't want to.
It's just a waste of their time because they can't do anything but watch.

I can see more restrictive rules in a Tourney, but I don't see a need to stop Dummy from leaving during a pick up game in the main room.

I don't think the suspension triggers with just a few quits though, I think it takes around 6 quits in a day as dummy to trigger the suspension. In BIL my mentor used to let me declare all our sides contracts, and critique my play. But he got a suspension, and we found out it was because he was letting me play and quitting as declarer.


>In f2f bridge you would obviously not leave a table if you are unhappy with your partner,

In F2F bridge you have commited to play a certain number of boards (lets say 21-24). On the internet in a pick up game in the main room, you don't need to stay around as dummy. They don't need you to "turn the cards in dummy". Just leave.


Its not a matter of "politeness" to expect the dummy to stick around, its 100% a waste of their time.

[jillybean]

Of course it is a matter of "politeness"
If people behaved online a little more like they do in real life we wouldnt have half the problems we do.


(I think I may come to regret this comment

[ArcLight]

>Of course it is a matter of "politeness"

Of course its not. What is accomplished by requiring the dummy to stick around?
Especially if they don't know the declarer. Are they supposed to sit in silence, then leave after the hand?
Gee, that accomplishes a lot.

Should Dummy offer comments on Declarers play - "Had you tested the Club suit to see if they were 3-3, before taking that finesse, you would have made it"
Will that be appreciated?

How about this? Don't leave your seat, just walk away from the computer. Get a drink of water and/or go to the bathroom. OR put the clothes in the Dryer, whatever. Say BRB.
Make the other 3 people at the table wait 10 minutes for you.
Let them get a black mark for booting you!
You will get a black mark too, ok, it will go awya in a day.

And maybe if you are lucky you will return in 7 minutes and they will not have booted you.
Then you can say BYE, and leave.

The end result is that you will have wasted the time of the 3 other players.



>If people behaved online a little more like they do in real life we wouldnt have half the problems we do.

I agree, but this is one case where the Internet is different from a live game.
I'm not talking about a tournament where a player quits in the middle, 'm talking about pick up games in the main room.

Someone doesn't want to watch, fine , leave. The Dummy sticking around doesn't help me or harm me.

[Sigi_BC84]

ritong, on Jun 1 2006, 08:23 AM, said:

Quote

Why a punishment for leaving as dummy, that is absolutely ridiculous. Why should he have to sit there and watch strangers play a hand if he is leaving? Plus it gives more time for the players to find a replacement.

Your belief of what constitutes rudeness may not correspond to everyone's belief. Or even most people's.

this post is scandalous.
next time you envisage to post obscenities, please consider first that we all are sheri, fred and uday's guests here. maybe that will help you to avoid giving them rudeness lessons with such violent tones.

Helloo???? Reality check, anyone?

If you want I give you a few examples for "obscenity", which might help you to realize that Joshs post actually wasn't obscene at all (or "scandalous" or whichever other terms you found).

All he was doing was strongly wording his opinion on this debated issue.

FWIW I agree with Josh, leaving as dummy should not be punished, and quitting mid-hand while playing should be punished even more harshly. I find it extremely annoying and rude to leave mid-hand (mostly they don't even give note when they do it).

--Sigi

[Al_U_Card]

I must agree. I stay until the next hand because my old computer and dial up line cause relatively frequent reconnects. I don't want to add to the burden. Removing dummy desertions from the punishment list would be fine by me, if feasible.