[Wackojack]

Scoring: MP

Bidding:
1♣(1♠) ?

---

A difficult decision for me as I am used to playing Acol where 1♣ always promises at least 4. Here we were playing 2/1 where 1♣ could be as few a 2 with 4432. Do you pass or bid 1nt or even double? I trust that 2♣ is not a serious option. Would playing Imp make a difference?

[Codo]

Hi Jack,

statistically, pd has more often 5 then 2 Clubs after this bidding.
I would surely X, okay, I had liked to have the red suits switched, but then, there had been no problem and all other bids are more away from what they should be:

pass? 0-6 with this shape
1 NT 8-10, should have a stopper
2 Club 4/5 Clubs 6-9
2 NT? 10-11 stopper
3 Club? 5+ Clubs 10-12

So for me, X is the smallest lie and the easiest way to control the later bidding.
(Okay, after 1 Club (1 Spade) X (3 Spade) 4 Heart X you lost control, but it could be worse, not much worse, but still worse...)

[whereagles]

1NT, dbl, 2♣, 2♠.. all these are valid options. I'd say this is a matter of style, opponents and state of match. Under neutral circumstances I like double. Gives pard a chance to bid 1NT or rebid a 5-card club suit.

If pard can't play them, then 1NT for sure.

[inquiry]

What ever is the equivalent to limit raise in ♣'s. They have at least 8 spades, so you are going to 3♣'s anyway, so show you were not pushed there. Depending upon your agreements, this might be 2NT, 2♠, 3♣, but whatever it is, use it now.

[helene_t]

2♣ is enough, partner has a balanced 12-14 most of the time in which case there's no game.

[foo]

I've got 10 HCP and 4 card support for partner. That's not only Inv values, it's the definition of a Limit Raise for partner.

Since GOP opened 1m, if I had S's stopped I'd bid 2N.
I don't have S's stopped, so I'm making the other bid that shows my hand: 2S

If GOP then shows a minimum via 2N or 3C, I pass.

[Winstonm]

The "hard" values and the kings behind the overcaller nudge this up to the bottom end of a limit raise in my mind, so I bid 2S, limit or better in clubs.

Winston

[MickyB]

whereagles, on May 12 2006, 11:04 AM, said:

1NT, dbl, 2♣, 2♠

1NT is not an option IMO, as well as wrong-siding NT (with overcaller's partner on lead) it will cause partner to misevaluate.

At IMPs I would definitely bid 2♣. Opposite a weak NT I'm happy to play there, opposite an unbalanced hand partner knows we have a 9 card fit so he will make another move of some description. It is more difficult at MPs. Depending upon style I might double, but not if partner might "raise" on 3 card support in ♥ as I prefer. That leaves 2♠ - occasionally pard will go minus in 2NT or 3♣, but more likely is that +120 or +150 will outscore both NT from my side and ♣.

[hrothgar]

I'm going to go out on a limb here (not the first time)

I'll preference my comments by stating that I agree that partner will typically have 4+ Clubs for his 1♣. (I'll also note that most versions of 2/1 open 1♦ with 4432 shape) If the opponents have a Spade fit (which is far from assured Ben), we will have a Club fit.

I am also a strong believer that you should show support with support. Normally, I strive to raise partner. Normally I'd very much agree with the players who are advocating some kind of club raise. With this said and done, none of the various club raises really appeal to me. I think that 2♣ is much to weak a bid. 2♠ seems to overstate playing strength. If I could bid 2NT as a mixed raise I would seriously consider it.

Even if 2NT is available as a mixed raise, I think that there is a lot to be said for a negative double. This hand will play very well in a Moysian Heart contract. I wouldn't be surprised if a Heart contract wins out at MPs.

[kfgauss]

Not to argue with the setup, but perhaps you should start opening 4432 with 1D instead -- raising (to 2C and 2S) with 4 trumps in competitive auctions is important (of course, there are losses when you open 1D, but these seem small in comparison).

Playing that style, this hand is just barely worth 2S (unless you open balanced 11 counts).

Playing as you do, 2S is even more attractive compared to 2C: you'll get to play 2N instead of 2C when partner's 4-4-3-2.

I don't like doubling without 4 hearts, but must admit that if ever there were a hand for it, this would be it, and hrothgar's reasoning is persuasive. Additionally, you get to play 1N instead of 2N when it's right.

So, if you open balanced 11 counts, I'll double. If not, I'm happy with both 2S and double.

Andy

[whereagles]

MickyB, on May 12 2006, 01:28 PM, said:

1NT is not an option IMO, as well as wrong-siding NT (with overcaller's partner on lead) it will cause partner to misevaluate.

Well, it's not an option for you

It is my belief that showing shape & strength is more important than showing stoppers, and 1NT does describe your shape & strength accurately. Being so descriptive, it cannot possibly cause misevaluation. Though I do agree that for this particular hand wrong-siding might be a problem.

[mike777]

2C

Not near enough for a limit raise for me. 10 hcp and 4 decent clubs. I will let them push me to 3 clubs, may get a chance to x them if they bid over that.
Prefer opening 1D with 4=4=3=2.

[pclayton]

I think a sensible auction is to try two only clubs and then double 2♠; which should show a max raise and a willingness to defend.

Your big fear with 2♣ is missing game, but pard rates to pass with a balanced 14 or less, and bid on with an offshape 15+. Obviously with a balanced 15-17, pard opens 1N.

Playing a 12-14 NT, I will gladly upgrade this to a limit raise.

Upgrading this to a limit raise in a 5 card major system with strong NT's is a bit much to me, but its not a wild overbid either.

[joshs]

Wackojack, on May 12 2006, 05:50 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

Bidding:
1♣(1♠) ?

---

A difficult decision for me as I am used to playing Acol where 1♣ always promises at least 4. Here we were playing 2/1 where 1♣ could be as few a 2 with 4432. Do you pass or bid 1nt or even double? I trust that 2♣ is not a serious option. Would playing Imp make a difference?

This is one of the reasons that I don't really like opening 1C on 4432 shape, rasing partner suddenly has risk. Having said that I will bid normally here, since the 2 card holding is pretty rare. Its very close between 2C and 2S. I would probably opt for 2C but I don't feel strongly about it. I don't really want to play 2N opposite a 12-13 balanced hand with only a single spade stopper...

[Wackojack]

Scoring: MP

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These were the NS hands. At the table I responded 2♣ which was passed out. Opps not a strong pair thought that Christmas had come and we scored a round zero. Unusually partner opened with a balanced 11 (12 balanced min opening is our agreement) but this is irrelevant as to what is my best bid. I dont know if I am influenced by now seeing partner's hand but I tend to think that double is the bid that is least likely to turn out badly. 10 points looks too weak to bid 2♠ and 1NT looks even more hopeful than a raise in clubs.

On the issue of what to open with 12-14 4432, I thought that when I started playing 2/1 that this was standard. Maybe my memory is faulty but I thought that initially this was the proposed BBO Advanced standard. Now I have been playing this way for a little while I don't feel like giving up the 1♦ opening as being a guaranteed 4 carder.

[luke warm]

first of all, "standard" with that hand is 1♦ (the only time 1♦ would be 3 cards in 2/1)... even so, i'd pass the north hand unless playing a weak nt.. on the actual bidding, double has a lot going for it but i'd bid 2♠ as a limit raise... opener would then probably bid 2nt, and i'd pass if my 2♠ was understood as a limit in ♣ (some play bidding their suit at the 2 level as promising a stopper, so the understandings matter a lot)

[Winstonm]

I think the bid that is likly to turn out best for North is pass. If I did open it would be 1D.

[HeartA]

First of all, I wouldn't open North's hand.

Secondly, with a partner without clear agreement on 2C after opp's interference, I would dbl.

Thirdly, the "standard" opening in 2/1 or sayc is 1D with 4432 shape, the only case when 1D opening shows 3 Ds.

[foo]

Wackojack, on May 13 2006, 05:32 AM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ K764 ♥ K965 ♦ AJ7 ♣ T5 ♠ T3 ♥ A73 ♦ K983 ♣ K983

These were the NS hands.

K764.K965.AJ7.T5

1= Is not a SA opening bid. =Especially= since it is both weak and you have to Open the "prepared minor". Even the Rule of 20 folks would pass this: 11+8= 19

2= Unless you are playing that abomination known as "the Short Club", the SA opening with =4432 is 1D. Absent further agreement a SA 1m opening promises 3+ cards.

[Flame]

Its amatter of system and style, if you want to bid 2C with some garbage hands then 2C here is out of the question, if it show 6-10 then its the right bid , if double show ubsolutly 4Hs then its out of the question. The normal bid is 2S and id take it.