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GIBs Bidding and Play I for Impossible? Or Infuriating?

#21 User is offline   TrialBid 

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Posted 2006-May-26, 20:10

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I am not sure if you are suggesting otherwise, but GIB is not really integrated with Full Disclosure.

GIB is able to supply text-only descriptions of bids. The display mechanism in BBO shows these descriptions in an FD-like window but FD is not involved in this.


Thank you for the clarification. As a user I saw a similar presentation and called it Full Disclosure without knowing the behind-the-scenes part.
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#22 User is offline   pagehoutex 

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Posted 2006-May-28, 02:51

I am new to Forum and this is my first post so I won't attempt to do anything more than type.

The money bridge games and tourneys are very enjoyable and it appears that they will be funding my entries in the ACBL tourneys for a while unless I lose all of my recently acquired gains in one bad night. :D

I set some criteria for myself when I started to play money bridge. When the $25 stake was gone, I would quit. That criteria went away the second session. Another $25 stake, a few days later a $50 stake. By then I had figured out some things about GIB and was starting to stay out of the hole. A few days passed. Then came the upgrade that told me how GIB would take my bid. Voila! But then I dared to try the 2 cent game and after opponents bid and made 2 slams in a row suddenly the system said I didn't have enough money for that stake. What????? So I sadly retreated to the 25 and 50 cent games and then back to the 1 cent game. My stake grew and I tried the 2 cent game again. And now that I've figured out some more things about GIB I am happily looking at my stake that after those ups and downs has grown from that last credit card payment of $50 to over $160. Here are some of the things I've learned.

1. As someone else said, GIB does not understand cue bids after a suit raise. It expects that to be another suit. My conclusion is that, no matter what the explanation is of how GIB will interpret the bid, at a low level many GIBs treat the bid as a help suit game try and at a higher level as a slam try and will leap to the contract if it likes that second suit bid. So I never cue bid a short suit Ace to my GIB partner!

2. I have learned that GIB has excellent declarer play most of the time and I get good scores when I let it play the hand instead of trying to finagle the bidding to let me play the hand.

3. I have learned that quite often GIB will not return my opening lead and wants to take command of the defense. So now when GIB does that I say "ok, you lead, I will follow" and quite often GIB is right.

4. And the main thing I have learned from playing less complicated robots on another site and GIB here is that, if I bid conservatively, we will usually end up in the right place but, if I do anything strange like cue bid a short suit, or if I take the position that this nice 11 looks like a full opener and I will open it in first or second seat on the rule of 20, we will end up too high and go down.

All I can say about the GIBs here after playing more "vanilla" ones at the other site is that I am impressed by how much they do know about playing bridge. So while some are complaining about what GIB is doing to them, I respectfully suggest that it is sometimes the consequence of what they are doing to GIB in their bidding.
Respectfully submitted
PageHouTex
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#23 User is offline   pagehoutex 

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Posted 2006-May-28, 03:01

P.S. What I meant when I said all I would do this time is type is that I had a hand I was going to share but haven't figured out all those buttons for showing a hand and in the middle of the night am not going to even try to learn how to do it. Suffice it to say that the other night my GIB thought a long time after I bid 4NT asking for key cards (searching its databases I guess) and then leaped to 7 hearts instead of answering me. Opponent X and I made the contract (don't recall which mbg I was in but the win earned me more than $30!). The reason GIB didn't answer the 4NT was because it had key cards and 2 voids!!!
Respectfully submitted
PageHouTex
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#24 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2006-May-28, 08:19

This sounds a lot like what my (smaller) experience of playing with the GIBs says. Yeah, they definitely hang you for your bidding!

About 3.: When to switch and when to return opener's lead, e.g. against a NT contract, is IMO very often a quite difficult question even where human players just tend to make an automatic decision. (And s.th. that a Versace seems to get right more often than an "average" world class player...) I wouldn't be surprised if GIBs simulations would guess this right more often than most humans.

Welcome to the forum, btw.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#25 User is offline   pagehoutex 

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Posted 2006-May-28, 12:43

Thank you for the welcome. I am a believer in getting acquainted with the topics and tones of a discussion group before jumping in to participate regularly so I have just been reading threads for the past few days whenever time permits. But I just couldn't resist posting in this particular one.
Respectfully submitted
PageHouTex
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#26 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2006-May-28, 19:13

pagehoutex, on May 28 2006, 03:51 AM, said:

All I can say about the GIBs here after playing more "vanilla" ones at the other site is that I am impressed by how much they do know about playing bridge. So while some are complaining about what GIB is doing to them, I respectfully suggest that it is sometimes the consequence of what they are doing to GIB in their bidding.

I have been using GIB when I do hand analysis for the Homebase Club.....I play all 12 Hands with GIB then recheck with netbridgevu.exe and double dummy anaysis. What I have found is exactly what you have pointed out. GIB is almost always at the par spot and usually takes all the tricks he can on both defense and declarer play. Now I am using the Commercial version at a setting of 10 which is pretty low on the thinking side.

GIB has been sitting around on my shelf for about 2 yrs without any use and since it got reintroduced here it has caught my attention again.
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#27 User is offline   amanetti 

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Posted 2006-June-09, 15:29

I've had a lot of fun playing against the 'Bots. Admittedly, they have their maddening quirks. but, like any 'idiot savant', they do a lot of things amazingly well. When something goes awry, I remember what someone said about a singing dog: "It's not that it sings poorly but that it sings at all".

In any event, I don't know if the product is still being maintained. If it is, I hope the feedback will result in improving the code. If nothing else, such information is helpful to those using the program.

AM
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